Stock Motor 1 3/4" Vs. 1 7/8 Engine Dyno Results!!
10-20-2008, 11:27 PM
#101
Choco you stating that LPP's are of superior quality to anything is pure crap, my dogs take ***** of higher quality, they are built by SSautochrome, absolutely the worst quality exhaust components ever made, seriously how many damn pipes does it take to make 1 primary? I just came from owning a turbo import and I read a thread about SSautochrome's manifolds falling apart, wastegate tubes falling off, turbos falling off, almost daily... FWIW I understand where you are coming from but I think you are taking the info supplied somewhat out of context. ( edit just noticed you did NOT say they were better quality but did say they would "vastly outperform", which I dont believe either )
Jason @ TSP thanks for contributing your time and efforts to get real data available for those that want to know, regardless of what anyone says these numbers are of use to many people on the fence of what headers to buy.
Jason @ TSP thanks for contributing your time and efforts to get real data available for those that want to know, regardless of what anyone says these numbers are of use to many people on the fence of what headers to buy.
10-22-2008, 01:31 PM
#107
10-26-2008, 06:21 PM
#109
Ok ChocoTaco time to put your money where your mouth is. I have the headers & engine still sitting here. The engine dyno is open a few days next week. If you can guaran-damn-tee your 1 3/4" headers will make the same power as the 1 7/8" headers then come on down. I'm not discouraged by your opinion, I'm discouraged because you have no true data to backup the claims that you guran-damn-tee other than your eye dyno....
The eye dyno lies to people all the time. This was a very good comparision because it showed that even at stock motor levels the larger 1 7/8" primaries can produce a little bit more power. For headers that cost very comparable that is a great option for our customers. Honestly I don't care if the customer buys 1 7/8 or 1 3/4" headers as long as they buy from us! Our goal is to give our customers the most accurate data for making purchasing decisions.
Once again your eye dyno is completely off. If you think the primary swap from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" will kill 15 torque at 2200rpm your completely crazy. I'll take that bet & I have the chassis dyno for us to test with. Come on down & I'll take that bet all day long.
The eye dyno lies to people all the time. This was a very good comparision because it showed that even at stock motor levels the larger 1 7/8" primaries can produce a little bit more power. For headers that cost very comparable that is a great option for our customers. Honestly I don't care if the customer buys 1 7/8 or 1 3/4" headers as long as they buy from us! Our goal is to give our customers the most accurate data for making purchasing decisions.
Once again your eye dyno is completely off. If you think the primary swap from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" will kill 15 torque at 2200rpm your completely crazy. I'll take that bet & I have the chassis dyno for us to test with. Come on down & I'll take that bet all day long.
10-26-2008, 07:20 PM
#110
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FWIW - I picked up 2 tenths going from 1-3/4" headers w/ 3" exhaust & cutout to 1-7/8" headers and a 3.5" exhaust & cutout on my D1SC Camaro. The rest of the powertrain is pretty much stock and the blower is only pushing 7psi. 
10-26-2008, 07:27 PM
#111
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People are sheep, and tend to believe anything that is posted as true...
That being said. I stand by my earlier statements... Proves nothing as to what the post's title would lead you to believe... And points you more torwards buying thier headers over the most common header on the market.
That being said. I stand by my earlier statements... Proves nothing as to what the post's title would lead you to believe... And points you more torwards buying thier headers over the most common header on the market.
10-26-2008, 11:33 PM
#113
If you buy a converter you will clearly see that it is over 20lbs of rotating mass lighter then the stock unit. Plus it is easier on your tranny.
Sounds like you need to ride in a stalled car.
12-12-2008, 10:39 PM
#114
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I'm kind of upset that I'll never be able to regain the 10 minutes of my life that I just wasted reading every post in this thread. I'm glad there are other morons that did the same.
12-13-2008, 02:17 AM
#115
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I'm just disappointed I had to read 6 pages of **** to find out what I already knew on the second.
That both guys are right. TSPs the **** for actually doing real work to find out real world information for their customers. Anybody debateing whether they have to just go with the pacesetters out of fear of loosing so much power on stock cubes between 3000-4500 need not worry. Now they know they can go with TSP 1 7/8s with no problems.
In a different thread on someone elses dime (not TSPs) it would be cool to see if the most expensive 1 3/4 headers really **** on Pacesetter. Then take the amount paid devided by the HP gained and see which one really is the best bang for the buck. Because some have stated that Pacesetter is no longer the best bang for the buck as competitors have stepped up there game.
Example: Stock rwhp=315 Add Pacesetters=325rwhp Add kooks=330wrhp
So Pacesetter for $400\10rwhp=$40per rwhp; Kook for $1000\15rwhp=$67per rwhp. I'm not saying any of these numbers are correct but that it would be cool to see someone do a comparison like this.
I think TSP has a good fight on this comparison. Even if the motor wasn't stock it was still controlled variables and very relivant. Most people looking for headers are looking to keep modding their f-bodys. With the people who own f-bodys, dollar per rwhp is usually a deciding factor when modding, besides the guys who just like throwing money away.
I wish I would have saw this thread before I bought my Pacesetters it would have pushed me to buy the TSP 1 7/8s.
TSP please don't stop doing these types of things because the point is your doing it for your customers and obviously the guys bashing aren't customers and they don't pay your bills so what's it matter if they disaggree or don't see the point of the comparison?
That both guys are right. TSPs the **** for actually doing real work to find out real world information for their customers. Anybody debateing whether they have to just go with the pacesetters out of fear of loosing so much power on stock cubes between 3000-4500 need not worry. Now they know they can go with TSP 1 7/8s with no problems.
In a different thread on someone elses dime (not TSPs) it would be cool to see if the most expensive 1 3/4 headers really **** on Pacesetter. Then take the amount paid devided by the HP gained and see which one really is the best bang for the buck. Because some have stated that Pacesetter is no longer the best bang for the buck as competitors have stepped up there game.
Example: Stock rwhp=315 Add Pacesetters=325rwhp Add kooks=330wrhp
So Pacesetter for $400\10rwhp=$40per rwhp; Kook for $1000\15rwhp=$67per rwhp. I'm not saying any of these numbers are correct but that it would be cool to see someone do a comparison like this.
I think TSP has a good fight on this comparison. Even if the motor wasn't stock it was still controlled variables and very relivant. Most people looking for headers are looking to keep modding their f-bodys. With the people who own f-bodys, dollar per rwhp is usually a deciding factor when modding, besides the guys who just like throwing money away.
I wish I would have saw this thread before I bought my Pacesetters it would have pushed me to buy the TSP 1 7/8s.
TSP please don't stop doing these types of things because the point is your doing it for your customers and obviously the guys bashing aren't customers and they don't pay your bills so what's it matter if they disaggree or don't see the point of the comparison?
12-16-2008, 01:03 AM
#117
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I'm just disappointed I had to read 6 pages of **** to find out what I already knew on the second.
That both guys are right. TSPs the **** for actually doing real work to find out real world information for their customers. Anybody debateing whether they have to just go with the pacesetters out of fear of loosing so much power on stock cubes between 3000-4500 need not worry. Now they know they can go with TSP 1 7/8s with no problems.
In a different thread on someone elses dime (not TSPs) it would be cool to see if the most expensive 1 3/4 headers really **** on Pacesetter. Then take the amount paid devided by the HP gained and see which one really is the best bang for the buck. Because some have stated that Pacesetter is no longer the best bang for the buck as competitors have stepped up there game.
Example: Stock rwhp=315 Add Pacesetters=325rwhp Add kooks=330wrhp
So Pacesetter for $400\10rwhp=$40per rwhp; Kook for $1000\15rwhp=$67per rwhp. I'm not saying any of these numbers are correct but that it would be cool to see someone do a comparison like this.
I think TSP has a good fight on this comparison. Even if the motor wasn't stock it was still controlled variables and very relivant. Most people looking for headers are looking to keep modding their f-bodys. With the people who own f-bodys, dollar per rwhp is usually a deciding factor when modding, besides the guys who just like throwing money away.
I wish I would have saw this thread before I bought my Pacesetters it would have pushed me to buy the TSP 1 7/8s.
TSP please don't stop doing these types of things because the point is your doing it for your customers and obviously the guys bashing aren't customers and they don't pay your bills so what's it matter if they disaggree or don't see the point of the comparison?
That both guys are right. TSPs the **** for actually doing real work to find out real world information for their customers. Anybody debateing whether they have to just go with the pacesetters out of fear of loosing so much power on stock cubes between 3000-4500 need not worry. Now they know they can go with TSP 1 7/8s with no problems.
In a different thread on someone elses dime (not TSPs) it would be cool to see if the most expensive 1 3/4 headers really **** on Pacesetter. Then take the amount paid devided by the HP gained and see which one really is the best bang for the buck. Because some have stated that Pacesetter is no longer the best bang for the buck as competitors have stepped up there game.
Example: Stock rwhp=315 Add Pacesetters=325rwhp Add kooks=330wrhp
So Pacesetter for $400\10rwhp=$40per rwhp; Kook for $1000\15rwhp=$67per rwhp. I'm not saying any of these numbers are correct but that it would be cool to see someone do a comparison like this.
I think TSP has a good fight on this comparison. Even if the motor wasn't stock it was still controlled variables and very relivant. Most people looking for headers are looking to keep modding their f-bodys. With the people who own f-bodys, dollar per rwhp is usually a deciding factor when modding, besides the guys who just like throwing money away.
I wish I would have saw this thread before I bought my Pacesetters it would have pushed me to buy the TSP 1 7/8s.
TSP please don't stop doing these types of things because the point is your doing it for your customers and obviously the guys bashing aren't customers and they don't pay your bills so what's it matter if they disaggree or don't see the point of the comparison?
Haha, man it's late..
03-03-2009, 01:01 PM
#119
I was referred to this thread on another post and late to the party but here is my two cents.
"This test is simply not a good comparison of the 2 tube diameters. Collector design for example can yield big gains or losses."
The poster is absolutely correct. The collector is the all important piece of the puzzle. For the test to be true the collectors need to be of the same design. The next thing is how do these headers compare when hooked up to an exhaust system as on your car?
As to the engine dyno test that is fine between the two headers but it does not show what happens when they are hooked up to the cars exhaust system. A chasis dyno test may have been a better platform to compare the two headers.
"This test is simply not a good comparison of the 2 tube diameters. Collector design for example can yield big gains or losses."
The poster is absolutely correct. The collector is the all important piece of the puzzle. For the test to be true the collectors need to be of the same design. The next thing is how do these headers compare when hooked up to an exhaust system as on your car?
As to the engine dyno test that is fine between the two headers but it does not show what happens when they are hooked up to the cars exhaust system. A chasis dyno test may have been a better platform to compare the two headers.
03-03-2009, 05:23 PM
#120
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I didn't read every post so apologies if this was asked and answered.
Since it made the gains on a beltless, unloaded engine dyno, what kind of rwhp / rwtq gains would be seen on an all accessory ls1 on a chassis dyno? No ewp, no ud pully, just a bone stock ls1. Tuned for 1 3/4 headers dyno'd then install the 1 7/8 tweak tune if needed and redyno ?? I think gains on an engine dyno vs chassis dyno are a wee bit misleading. Gains are gains though and thanks for all the time and effort that was put into the testing.
Since it made the gains on a beltless, unloaded engine dyno, what kind of rwhp / rwtq gains would be seen on an all accessory ls1 on a chassis dyno? No ewp, no ud pully, just a bone stock ls1. Tuned for 1 3/4 headers dyno'd then install the 1 7/8 tweak tune if needed and redyno ?? I think gains on an engine dyno vs chassis dyno are a wee bit misleading. Gains are gains though and thanks for all the time and effort that was put into the testing.