OneQuickSS

I know you threw your opinion about having a manual, but Im totally lost. I just dont follow what youre trying to say. I really dont have much knowledge about cams, so explaining your thoughts a little would be of much help. By the way, whats the 106 ICL thing you are telling me about. Thanks

Larry

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OneQuickSS:
<strong> I know you threw your opinion about having a manual, but Im totally lost. I just dont follow what youre trying to say. I really dont have much knowledge about cams, so explaining your thoughts a little would be of much help. By the way, whats the 106 ICL thing you are telling me about. Thanks </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First, I really think you may have a little more cam than you should be installing. That's a lot of lift for a street car with cats and factory heads. I rather doubt 224/224 is going to pass emissions. Valve train wear is going to be high too with that much lift and lots of miles. But in any case here's my thoughts. You noted in your signature that you have tuning by MTI. I'm assuming you have the rpm limiter about 6500 rpm? The hp will peak well above 6500 rpm with this cam. You want your shift to be 200-300 above peak hp. You can't shift that high. Lost et! You will lose low end torque needed for a good launch with those tall 3.42 gears. Unless you drag the clutch unmercifully. Lost 60' et. Torque and hp has to be brought down so you get the most under the curve. By advancing the cam or setting the inlet valve with respect to TDC the correct amount you will lower the torque and hp peak rpm. I have found on fairly low rpm street engines that if you set the intake lobe center about 106 degrees ATDC you will get best results. This is a 106 Intake Centerline (ICL) I'm recommending.

OneQuickSS

I dont know if this helps any, but I will be getting my pcm adjusted after I get the cam installed. I will also be putting in 3.73s soon. I probably will switch out the high flow cats to the off road pipes when I get the cam installed? Will that benefit me in any way? Will it bring out the sound of the cam? Oh and sometime in the future I will be getting some head work done. By the way, how does more miles affect more valvetrain wear? Can you explain what this means, "You want your shift to be 200-300 above peak hp." Thanks alot.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OneQuickSS:
<strong> Im installing a 224/224 .581/.581 112 and I wanted to know if it needs to be advanced? Its a straight up cam with no advance ground into it. If so, how much and what timing chain will work great with this cam and also have the ability to advance and retard? I wanted to stick with a single roller because Ive heard that it has clearance issues with an ASP underdrive crank pulley. By the way, what steps will need to be taken in order to advance it? Thanks and any help is much appreciated. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The 224/224 112 lsa 112icl cam has an intake closing point of 44 deg abdc.

This cam peaks at 6,200 rpm when installed straight up.

If your car has stock gearing, than install the cam straight up.

If you have 4.10's or better, than I would recommend retarding the cam 2 degrees for more top end power.

I WOULD NOT recommend advancing this cam, unless you have an LS1 powered tractor.

-JMHO

OneQuickSS

I wont be going as low as 4.10s, but will 3.73s make any difference in whether to retard it or not. I thought that this cam peaks out anywhere from 6500 to 6700. Thanks

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

The cam will peak at 6,200 installed straight up. With 3.73's I would install it straight up.

OneQuickSS

Can you explain to me how these other guys using the exact same cam are getting it to peak out around 6500 to 6700 rpm? Im not doubting your word, I just want to know. Thanks Anyone else have an opinion on whether I should advance or retard this cam?

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OneQuickSS:
<strong> Can you explain to me how these other guys using the exact same cam are getting it to peak out around 6500 to 6700 rpm? Im not doubting your word, I just want to know. Thanks Anyone else have an opinion on whether I should advance or retard this cam? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I work at Speed Inc. and tune cars with that same cam almost every day. They all peak at 6,200.

I don't know how you would have seen a dyno sheet from a car with that cam peaking at 6,700 unless it was an automatic with an unlocked converter. (Therefore the RPM on the sheet will show higher than actual.)

NHRAFORMULA00

iTrader: (2)

SPEED INC,im the fellow that came in on monday morning that made an appointment to have this same cam installed. 224/581/112 this cam has 224 @at 50, what is the total adv duration, just wondering THANKS NHRAFORMULA00

JS

iTrader: (4)

Speed inc what if u had this cam on a 113lsa with no adv. ground into it (113ICL )in an auto TP4400/4.10?

Would u adv it or put it in straight up?
I would think this is gonna peak much too high and lose too much tq even for a stout converter/gear car?

Do u agree?
JS

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by E. W. J:
<strong> SPEED INC,im the fellow that came in on monday morning that made an appointment to have this same cam installed. 224/581/112 this cam has 224 @at 50, what is the total adv duration, just wondering THANKS NHRAFORMULA00 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure what the .006 duration is. I'll check tomorrow and let you know.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JS:
<strong> Speed inc what if u had this cam on a 113lsa with no adv. ground into it (113ICL )in an auto TP4400/4.10?

Would u adv it or put it in straight up?
I would think this is gonna peak much too high and lose too much tq even for a stout converter/gear car?

Do u agree?
JS </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">224/224 113lsa 113icl, I would definitely install it straight up in a 4400/4.10 car. You will only be a few hundred away from peak torque when you launch.

Peak torque RPM with that cam will be about 4,750.

-Jim

Tim 98z

iTrader: (1)

Man your getting pounded with these questions. But i'm installing that cam (224/.581 @112)this weekend in my M6. 4.30 gears in the 12 bolt, ls6 intake, stageII heads. What would you reccomend for me?

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Tim 98z ]</small>

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tim 98z:
<strong> Man your getting pounded with these questions. But i'm installing that cam this weekend in my M6. 4.30 gears in the 12 bolt, ls6 intake, stageII heads. What would you reccomend for me? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL. It's no problem. If it was my car, I would retard the cam 3 degrees.

It's really just personal preference on what RPM you want to make peak horsepower.

The cam installed straight up will peak at 6,200.

Retarded 3 degrees should peak slightly after 6,400.

If I had your car, with your mods and 4.30 gears, I would be willing to trade off some low end torque for some high rpm power. That's just my preference though.

Tim 98z

iTrader: (1)

Excuse my ignorance but then where would i shift? About 6600?

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

You will need to experiment at the track to find your ideal shift point, but I would expect to shift 400-500 rpm's after peak HP for best results.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OneQuickSS:
<strong> I wont be going as low as 4.10s, but will 3.73s make any difference in whether to retard it or not. I thought that this cam peaks out anywhere from 6500 to 6700. Thanks </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you should consider going at least as low as 4.10s with that cam; I'd put in 4.30s or a smaller cam if I were you. Your clutch is going to be hating you otherwise. Remember, first gear in an M6 is only 2.66.

OneQuickSS

To Cal: I want this car to be steetable and I think that 4.10s will be too much for my set up. A buddy of mine has 4.10s in his 95 Z28, and they just see to be too much gear for me. I wanted to go with 3.73s because theyre just a step below 4.10s and a step above 3.42s. Why do you recommend me going with 4.10s or lower? The cam is not going to peak any higher than the stock one as the guy from Speed Inc. says. So whats the point in going with such a low gear? Thanks

Cal

iTrader: (1)

Actually, on a stick car, it works just the opposite of that; the lower ratio gears increase driveability. One thing the HP & Torque curves don't show you is what happens below 2000 rpm. When you start out from a dead stop, rpm will be in the 1000-1700 rpm range where big cams don't work well. You will need the low gears to make up for lost torque in this area. With an M6, you will still tach very low at highway speeds even with the 4.10 gears so you won't take a hit on the MPGs. I have 4.11s and still get 21 mpg combined city/highway.

DailyAluminumBlock

I have a 224/224 565/565 110lsa cam with a 106 intake center line installed straight up (in other words 4 degrees of advance) and I also have 3.42s. My car pulls hard to about 6400 and it makes more power everywhere then the stocker did. I don't know about you guys but I don't like personally shifting the stock shortblock passed 6500. Maybe I am being over cautious.

Hey speed inc., what do you recommend as far as retarding goes. Remember, this is a 110lsa cam which will peak a little higher then the 112lsa cam.