Still looking for that answer: Do you HAVE to run the tray or not?

 

I ordered Morels from Thunder Racing but haven't shipped yet.....they say they are national backorder. Are there two versions.....one with link bars and one without??

 

Yes there are ones with and ones without. Yes they are nat'l backorder but we're still finding them. All be it difficult...LOL

 

So what are the pros & cons of each? Just wondering which ones are preferred for what application?

 

And I also HEAR when you drill the trays for better drain back it weakens the tray. I just when went with the sturdier LS2 trays here.

 

The link bars are safer with a lot of lobe lift as they can not fall out of the plastic lifter tray and spin. Of course the Morels are much longer anyway so they have more lifter stuck in the tray even on lower base circle cams as well. I have never seen one spin because of that. You always want to put new lifter trays in when you change lifters unless you have very new tight trays anyway.

 

Trays and link bars don't work together. You either use one or the other. I don't see how tray failure should be any more of a problem than link bar failure. The pivot pin on a link bar lifter could fail and allow the link bar to fall free. Now you have two spinning lifters. I'm sure this is rare just as lifter tray failure is. In all the years I've read posts on LS1TECH the subject of lifter tray failure is almost never mentioned and when it is it almost always unfounded as it in this case with the guy who has a "buddy" that had a lifter spin due to what he "guessed" was a tray failure. If you tear a motor down the "guessing" better be over by that time. Either the tray failed or it didn't and if it did the lifter is shot as is the cam and it's anyones guess what else would be damaged with all the shrapnel flying around in there. Lifter trays are cheap where as sets of link bar lifters are not. The plastic lifter tray system is a simple design. I guess if you lost lubrication your lifter trays could fail, but by the time that happens you've got a lot more problems to worry about than a cheap plastic lifter tray.

 

Very good points, however since I am running a solid roller cam, and MOST (if not all) solid roller lifters are designed to run a link bar, so..... Now, again, I am new to the LSx scene after the last 20+ years in the Ford camp and that holds true for the Ford stuff. Now, my motor is at the machine shop and they have not ordered my cam yet (nor received the lifters) and I have not asked them this very question. So, running a solid roller cam I may HAVE to eliminate the tray IF the lifter comes with the link bar since I can not run both is what you are saying. Now, maybe on teh LSx stuff, you can order the lifters with or without the link bar, maybe??? Again, will ask my mahine shop if they are aware of this. Remember, I am running a solid roller and not a hydraulic roller......

 

I've definitely had several engines in here with lifters spun in the trays but they are always larger lobe lift or reground cams with low base circles and using old worn out trays. I have never had one spin in a new tray so far yet.

I've never seen a link bar fail on any of these LS1s but there are people that don't know what they are doing and use stuff that hits or can't accomodate the lobe lift either. We fixed two guys on here that had link bars hangin up in the block and not letting the lifters touch the base circle.

 

If they are building the engine then they should know all this to tell you the truth. There are lifters made both ways.

 

And they very well may. I have not had this discussion with them, and yes, if they are not aware of it, I would be scared as well. Good thing is, I have dealt with these guys for the last 20 years or so, and they do bang up work. These guys worked with Marvin Shaw who worked with the Gliddens. In fact, the engine dyno at my machine shop has had quite a few Glidden motors on it Yeah, if you have never heard a Pro Stock Motor on an engine dyno, you ARE missing something. Marvin "retired" a few years back, but left his dyno there.

I sent ya a PM

 

i dont know if you have ever done any research, but there are tons of threads in here about ls7 and caddy lifter failures. and some vendors may push a product like morel, but there is a reason. why would you push an inferior product. one that has proven to fail on high hp engines many times. the morels on the other hand do not have a horrible track record and do not fail on a regular basis. in a "stock" warrantied gm motor yes a ls7 lifter is ok, but beyond that i wouldnt waste my money. so i dont think that anyone is pimping a product, just trying to give the customer the best possible option. there isnt any point of spending tons of money on an engine and then have the whole thing go to **** because you cut one corner on the most abused part of the engine. the lifters see every revolution of the cam. and im not sure if you have any engine building experience yourself, but if you do then im sure you will feel the same way i do, and the way the other experienced engine builders in here do, and that is that the gm lifters and the comp lifters are far inferior to a morel.

 

here is a link of one of those amazing caddy lifters

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ded-motor.html

 

I've had stuff dynoed there too in years back so that's a good place but just checking as half of the so called "race shops" in Texas could not build your engine. USA should have no probs though.

I know when Billy Glidden worked down here he did a bunch of stuff with Marvin and I am sure those engines were on that dyno a few times. Everyone I know that worked with him still likes and respects Mr. Shaw a ton.

BTW I have heard some new and old PS engines too believe it or not and they are really loud!

 

LS7 lifters have shown themselves to be perfectly fine, infact they really arn't anything special, just regular delphi roller tappet. If their was a problem with them we'd be in trouble cause we've installed and sold a couple hundred sets of them. So no on my account they arn't a "waste" of money.

Comp 850 we havn't had an issue.

GM racing lifters, yup had problems with them.

Morel, they are a superb lifter with tool steel parts in them, i've known of 2 incidences where they did go bad.

 

The Morels are a much superior lifter in terms of ther body and wheel and axle etc. There is no comparison to the oem stockers whatsoever but they do cost a whole lot more. I use the Morels where the lifters are sure to get beat up and I don't want to risk the axles coming out or a wheel coming apart. We did have one of the Morels get a small piece of something in it and it started making noise since it was essentialy collapsed so it can happen to any lifter but the rest of the lifter is way up on the others. We have had them in road race and drift deals where they were regularly eating stock lifters and these Morels just don't ever seem to have those issues or come apart.

Saying all that the most important thing is that you have stable valvetrain already that doesn't put the system in float or bounce and then almost all the lifters will live a much longer life. On my own stuff I use all the lifters and rarely if ever have an issue because I won't do really crazy stuff in general with the GM lifters. When I have stayed with very stable parts (lobes, rocker ratio, springs etc.) I have seen almost no issues with any of the lifters.

Now if I am doing something that will see much more abuse and rpm and possibly over revving etc. and with crazier lobes and much more spring pressure etc. I usually opt for the Morels or quite often the customers do and we use them. Even at the price that Morel charges which is very high they are almost sold out across the nation right now.

PS. we have seen almost 11 engines now with smaller LSK lobes and failed lifters. These were engines we fixed and a few had insufficient spring pressure because the shops that built them obviously didn't know how to use an installed height mic I guess. On the other side we had one engine with massive valve float and jammed locks and beat up seats also with LSK lobes and way too little seat pressure and the Morels were still going fine even though it had seen 8000 rpm a lot and had 3 broken 921 springs on it at that point. Not a scientific test at all but I've never seen so much crap and not had the axles coming out like they do on the stock lifters when that happens.

 

Just to clarify. Most if not all of my engine customers go with the Morels. I carry the Ls7 lifter as well and we have installed them too. The OP asked about the link bars vs the trays. So I reported what my customers do and tried to help him. I don't pimp products because they are more expensive, I actually make less money on them than the cheap crap. I "pimp" what I would and do use in my engine as I have demanding requirements.
Just as I use Callies and Wiseco and ACL and ARP I like to use Morels as well.
We're talking about a true performance product designed for abuse.

I work closely with Erik to make sure my customers make the right choices and we set them up for success rather than failure 23,000 miles down the road. Some requirements aren't as demanding as others and the OEM lifter is fine.

 

Yeah, those were the good old days!! I'm trying to think when, but Im pretty sure it was @ '93 when I first met Mr. Shaw, and shortly after is when I met Billy. I did not get to "meet" Bob, but did get to hear his motor sing

Gonna see Bruce and the guys on Monday, and will talk with him about the lifters and such. Hey Erik if you were to run a solid roller lifter, which one would YOU run. Yo can always send me a PM if need be. Thanks man

 

Couldn't agree more with your statements. A lot of the setups on this forum use monster cams with heavy springs yet they discount both the lifters and the pushrods in the overall setup. When you want to start spinning a motor well beyond GM's design, you truly need to consider parts that are designed for the application. I know a lot of guys are on a budget, but they need to realize that the motor is only as good as its weakest part.