Best Valve-Springs on the market.....
02-13-2003, 10:30 AM
#21
Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... I use 918's with no problems <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
A food for thought is that you want to run the lightest and least seat and open pressure you can get away with without valve float.By running stronger springs (high spring pressure)you lose some hp and put unnecessary stress on the lifters,cam chain,ect.So in a perfect world single springs are the best choice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
A food for thought is that you want to run the lightest and least seat and open pressure you can get away with without valve float.By running stronger springs (high spring pressure)you lose some hp and put unnecessary stress on the lifters,cam chain,ect.So in a perfect world single springs are the best choice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
02-13-2003, 10:40 AM
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... That's great and all that some of you can rev your car to 7k rpm, but how many miles do you get out of set of springs?
I want a spring that is going to last until the engine wears out/blows up. Is this possible?
I have broken 941's and MMS springs. It seems like the 941's and MMS springs only last about 20k miles and I have 15k on a set of MMS springs now.
I thinking the comp doubles are the way to go. I know it requires machining the pockets but I am sick of changing springs.
I want a spring that is going to last until the engine wears out/blows up. Is this possible?
I have broken 941's and MMS springs. It seems like the 941's and MMS springs only last about 20k miles and I have 15k on a set of MMS springs now.
I thinking the comp doubles are the way to go. I know it requires machining the pockets but I am sick of changing springs.
02-13-2003, 10:54 AM
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... The Isky springs sounded like a good idea until I found out the necessary retainers cost $200. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
02-13-2003, 04:16 PM
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... You guys skipped my post. There are REV drop in double springs available. A local car spins to 7200 rpm with no hint of valve float.
02-13-2003, 04:20 PM
#25
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JP98SS:
<strong> You guys skipped my post. There are REV drop in double springs available. A local car spins to 7200 rpm with no hint of valve float. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See my response to your thread above. I will add both of the double springs to the list if you guys will tell me how much modification is going to be nessisary to make these springs work on stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong> You guys skipped my post. There are REV drop in double springs available. A local car spins to 7200 rpm with no hint of valve float. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See my response to your thread above. I will add both of the double springs to the list if you guys will tell me how much modification is going to be nessisary to make these springs work on stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
02-13-2003, 05:02 PM
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by niphilli:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JP98SS:
<strong> You guys skipped my post. There are REV drop in double springs available. A local car spins to 7200 rpm with no hint of valve float. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See my response to your thread above. I will add both of the double springs to the list if you guys will tell me how much modification is going to be nessisary to make these springs work on stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was running 918's but now have REV 1116's. There is no machining involved, hence "drop in".
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JP98SS:
<strong> You guys skipped my post. There are REV drop in double springs available. A local car spins to 7200 rpm with no hint of valve float. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See my response to your thread above. I will add both of the double springs to the list if you guys will tell me how much modification is going to be nessisary to make these springs work on stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was running 918's but now have REV 1116's. There is no machining involved, hence "drop in".
02-13-2003, 06:05 PM
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by niphilli:
<strong> Anyone Know if the Comp 987's are also "Drop in"?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe the 987`s require machining of the heads......i have over 30k miles on a set of set of CC 941 springs,Who would think that was possible! I bet its about time for spring change.
<strong> Anyone Know if the Comp 987's are also "Drop in"?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe the 987`s require machining of the heads......i have over 30k miles on a set of set of CC 941 springs,Who would think that was possible! I bet its about time for spring change.
02-13-2003, 06:08 PM
#31
Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Speed Demon:
<strong> That's great and all that some of you can rev your car to 7k rpm, but how many miles do you get out of set of springs?
I want a spring that is going to last until the engine wears out/blows up. Is this possible?
I have broken 941's and MMS springs. It seems like the 941's and MMS springs only last about 20k miles and I have 15k on a set of MMS springs now.
I thinking the comp doubles are the way to go. I know it requires machining the pockets but I am sick of changing springs. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd like to know which springs sponsors are recommending for longevity as well! More specifically, under which conditions will you get the longest life, and how many miles should one expect? Valvespring Roulette sucks! I want to know who has 30K+ miles on a H/C setup w/ aftermarket springs.
I'm not clear on the 295-D's...are they drop in stock replacements w/ the exception of modifying the retainer?
<strong> That's great and all that some of you can rev your car to 7k rpm, but how many miles do you get out of set of springs?
I want a spring that is going to last until the engine wears out/blows up. Is this possible?
I have broken 941's and MMS springs. It seems like the 941's and MMS springs only last about 20k miles and I have 15k on a set of MMS springs now.
I thinking the comp doubles are the way to go. I know it requires machining the pockets but I am sick of changing springs. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd like to know which springs sponsors are recommending for longevity as well! More specifically, under which conditions will you get the longest life, and how many miles should one expect? Valvespring Roulette sucks! I want to know who has 30K+ miles on a H/C setup w/ aftermarket springs.
I'm not clear on the 295-D's...are they drop in stock replacements w/ the exception of modifying the retainer?
02-13-2003, 06:49 PM
#32
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JimMueller:
I'd like to know which springs sponsors are recommending for longevity as well! More specifically, under which conditions will you get the longest life, and how many miles should one expect? Valvespring Roulette sucks! I want to know who has 30K+ miles on a H/C setup w/ aftermarket springs.
I'm not clear on the 295-D's...are they drop in stock replacements w/ the exception of modifying the retainer? [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Jim,
Valvetrain wear is going to be completely based on the cam you are using, not just the specs of the cam (lift and duration) but also the way the cam is ground (ramp rates.....). From what I have read most vendors (Rapid, JPR, MTI , TR) are using the Comp 918s, manleys, or Isky 295D.
For example, last I heard TR was reccomending a valve-spring check-up (918's) about every 15-20K miles, but their cams have very aggressive ramp rates. If you want to run your springs 30K miles or more you may want to look into a less aggressive cam grind with diration in the 220 or less range and lift in the .50 or less range.
The only spring that I have actually read about failures is the 918 but that was a "batch' problem.
The Isky is looking good to me, and from what I understand they are a "drop-in" but they do requre a different retainer.
Anyone know what Cartek is using in their setups???
-Nick
<small>[ February 13, 2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: niphilli ]</small>
I'd like to know which springs sponsors are recommending for longevity as well! More specifically, under which conditions will you get the longest life, and how many miles should one expect? Valvespring Roulette sucks! I want to know who has 30K+ miles on a H/C setup w/ aftermarket springs.
I'm not clear on the 295-D's...are they drop in stock replacements w/ the exception of modifying the retainer? [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Jim,
Valvetrain wear is going to be completely based on the cam you are using, not just the specs of the cam (lift and duration) but also the way the cam is ground (ramp rates.....). From what I have read most vendors (Rapid, JPR, MTI , TR) are using the Comp 918s, manleys, or Isky 295D.
For example, last I heard TR was reccomending a valve-spring check-up (918's) about every 15-20K miles, but their cams have very aggressive ramp rates. If you want to run your springs 30K miles or more you may want to look into a less aggressive cam grind with diration in the 220 or less range and lift in the .50 or less range.
The only spring that I have actually read about failures is the 918 but that was a "batch' problem.
The Isky is looking good to me, and from what I understand they are a "drop-in" but they do requre a different retainer.
Anyone know what Cartek is using in their setups???
-Nick
<small>[ February 13, 2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: niphilli ]</small>
02-13-2003, 07:37 PM
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... What does everyone think of when they say "aggressive ramp rates"? When I hear this, I think of XE-R type cams or cams in the 226+/.58X or higher range. I don't see cams in the 224 or less/.56X or less range as all that aggresive by todays LS1 standards.
I do beleive that I've seen at least one person post here that they had about 50K miles on a set of early 26918s with a something like a 222/222//.563/.563 sized XE grind cam....
Also, I would imagine that a spring that is expected to last 15-20K under constant drag racing, close to 7000rpm, aggresive cam profile, and possibily power adder applications (and also sustained high rpm opperation such as road racing) could be expected to last at least twice that long under regular street driving with your occasional high rpm blast or every-once-in-a-while drag race.... Thoughts?
<small>[ February 13, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: RPM WS6 ]</small>
I do beleive that I've seen at least one person post here that they had about 50K miles on a set of early 26918s with a something like a 222/222//.563/.563 sized XE grind cam....
Also, I would imagine that a spring that is expected to last 15-20K under constant drag racing, close to 7000rpm, aggresive cam profile, and possibily power adder applications (and also sustained high rpm opperation such as road racing) could be expected to last at least twice that long under regular street driving with your occasional high rpm blast or every-once-in-a-while drag race.... Thoughts?
<small>[ February 13, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: RPM WS6 ]</small>
02-13-2003, 10:08 PM
#34
Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... DONT TAKE THE INNER SPRING OUT OF THE 295D.
U need to contact Isky and order the CORRECT hardware so u can locate the outer and the inner spring properly.U need THEIR shims,locators and THEIR retainers to do this properly.
U can call ISKY yourself and ask them.
www.iskycams.com
JS
U need to contact Isky and order the CORRECT hardware so u can locate the outer and the inner spring properly.U need THEIR shims,locators and THEIR retainers to do this properly.
U can call ISKY yourself and ask them.
www.iskycams.com
JS
02-14-2003, 07:50 AM
#35
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong> What does everyone think of when they say "aggressive ramp rates"? When I hear this, I think of XE-R type cams or cams in the 226+/.58X or higher range. I don't see cams in the 224 or less/.56X or less range as all that aggresive by todays LS1 standards.
I do beleive that I've seen at least one person post here that they had about 50K miles on a set of early 26918s with a something like a 222/222//.563/.563 sized XE grind cam....
Also, I would imagine that a spring that is expected to last 15-20K under constant drag racing, close to 7000rpm, aggresive cam profile, and possibily power adder applications (and also sustained high rpm opperation such as road racing) could be expected to last at least twice that long under regular street driving with your occasional high rpm blast or every-once-in-a-while drag race.... Thoughts? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The way I understand it "aggressive ramp rates" have nothing to do with the cam lift or duration. As far as I know a ramp rate is how quickly the valves open and close. A steep ramp lobe is going to acheive maximum lift more quickly and therefor put more stress on the valvetrain. Please jump-in if this is incorrect.
<strong> What does everyone think of when they say "aggressive ramp rates"? When I hear this, I think of XE-R type cams or cams in the 226+/.58X or higher range. I don't see cams in the 224 or less/.56X or less range as all that aggresive by todays LS1 standards.
I do beleive that I've seen at least one person post here that they had about 50K miles on a set of early 26918s with a something like a 222/222//.563/.563 sized XE grind cam....
Also, I would imagine that a spring that is expected to last 15-20K under constant drag racing, close to 7000rpm, aggresive cam profile, and possibily power adder applications (and also sustained high rpm opperation such as road racing) could be expected to last at least twice that long under regular street driving with your occasional high rpm blast or every-once-in-a-while drag race.... Thoughts? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The way I understand it "aggressive ramp rates" have nothing to do with the cam lift or duration. As far as I know a ramp rate is how quickly the valves open and close. A steep ramp lobe is going to acheive maximum lift more quickly and therefor put more stress on the valvetrain. Please jump-in if this is incorrect.
02-14-2003, 07:52 AM
#36
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JS:
<strong> DONT TAKE THE INNER SPRING OUT OF THE 295D.
U need to contact Isky and order the CORRECT hardware so u can locate the outer and the inner spring properly.U need THEIR shims,locators and THEIR retainers to do this properly.
U can call ISKY yourself and ask them.
www.iskycams.com
JS </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JS~ Does this mean that Cartek uses Isky's??
<strong> DONT TAKE THE INNER SPRING OUT OF THE 295D.
U need to contact Isky and order the CORRECT hardware so u can locate the outer and the inner spring properly.U need THEIR shims,locators and THEIR retainers to do this properly.
U can call ISKY yourself and ask them.
www.iskycams.com
JS </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JS~ Does this mean that Cartek uses Isky's??
02-14-2003, 08:02 AM
#37
Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong> What does everyone think of when they say "aggressive ramp rates"? When I hear this, I think of XE-R type cams or cams in the 226+/.58X or higher range. I don't see cams in the 224 or less/.56X or less range as all that aggresive by todays LS1 standards.
I do beleive that I've seen at least one person post here that they had about 50K miles on a set of early 26918s with a something like a 222/222//.563/.563 sized XE grind cam....
Also, I would imagine that a spring that is expected to last 15-20K under constant drag racing, close to 7000rpm, aggresive cam profile, and possibily power adder applications (and also sustained high rpm opperation such as road racing) could be expected to last at least twice that long under regular street driving with your occasional high rpm blast or every-once-in-a-while drag race.... Thoughts? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">RPM, I'm wondering the same thing, even made a post about this a week or so ago with little response. I've got a T1 + 918 setup with 10k already as a daily driver with alot of highway milage at 2k rpms, and I'd like not to have to change my springs in 5-10k miles. If someone ran a TR224 to 50k, I think I should be fine for a while with the less agressive T1.
<strong> What does everyone think of when they say "aggressive ramp rates"? When I hear this, I think of XE-R type cams or cams in the 226+/.58X or higher range. I don't see cams in the 224 or less/.56X or less range as all that aggresive by todays LS1 standards.
I do beleive that I've seen at least one person post here that they had about 50K miles on a set of early 26918s with a something like a 222/222//.563/.563 sized XE grind cam....
Also, I would imagine that a spring that is expected to last 15-20K under constant drag racing, close to 7000rpm, aggresive cam profile, and possibily power adder applications (and also sustained high rpm opperation such as road racing) could be expected to last at least twice that long under regular street driving with your occasional high rpm blast or every-once-in-a-while drag race.... Thoughts? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">RPM, I'm wondering the same thing, even made a post about this a week or so ago with little response. I've got a T1 + 918 setup with 10k already as a daily driver with alot of highway milage at 2k rpms, and I'd like not to have to change my springs in 5-10k miles. If someone ran a TR224 to 50k, I think I should be fine for a while with the less agressive T1.
02-14-2003, 10:27 PM
#38
Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... My Comp Cam has been installed since fall of 2000.
Grind Number LS1 3752/3754HR12+4
Gross Lift .527/.535
.006 Tappet Lift 272/280
Valve timing Int 1 BTDC/37ABDC
"" Exh 49BBDC/3-ATDC
108ICL
Dur @ .05 218/226
Lobe Lift .3100/.3150
LS 112
Broke three Rev 1115's the following summer, and replaced all with same. The next summer (last year) I broke one 1100mi from home with like 17K on them. Had the dealer replace all with 918's last mid-June. The striped variety were not yet available, so I presume I didn't get any of the bad batch since I have about 11K on them.
I have a hard time believing this cams ramps are as serious as the XE much less the XE-R. Even though the 918's are reportedly the best out there, I'm hesitant to test them since I've spent 4-5K replacing consequentially damaged parts the past two years.
Since 11/30/01, I've made only two passes at the drag strip, been to two autox events, been through 14 states at cruising speed, plus daily driving. I rarely take it above 6K unless on the dyno.
Hell, I might as well put in a more aggressive cam if I have to change springs every 15K. I also love driving the car, but I'm paranoid as hell about breaking down on roadtrips now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Grind Number LS1 3752/3754HR12+4
Gross Lift .527/.535
.006 Tappet Lift 272/280
Valve timing Int 1 BTDC/37ABDC
"" Exh 49BBDC/3-ATDC
108ICL
Dur @ .05 218/226
Lobe Lift .3100/.3150
LS 112
Broke three Rev 1115's the following summer, and replaced all with same. The next summer (last year) I broke one 1100mi from home with like 17K on them. Had the dealer replace all with 918's last mid-June. The striped variety were not yet available, so I presume I didn't get any of the bad batch since I have about 11K on them.
I have a hard time believing this cams ramps are as serious as the XE much less the XE-R. Even though the 918's are reportedly the best out there, I'm hesitant to test them since I've spent 4-5K replacing consequentially damaged parts the past two years.
Since 11/30/01, I've made only two passes at the drag strip, been to two autox events, been through 14 states at cruising speed, plus daily driving. I rarely take it above 6K unless on the dyno.
Hell, I might as well put in a more aggressive cam if I have to change springs every 15K. I also love driving the car, but I'm paranoid as hell about breaking down on roadtrips now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
02-17-2003, 08:27 AM
#39
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by niphilli:
<strong> Lets get a good valve-spring thread going. Is one better than the other. There are quite a few on the market now that are rated up to .600 lift:
ISKY 295D
COMP 918
Manley 221423
SLP "chrome silicone springs"
LPE Springs (Made by Comp)
REV 1116 (Drop in Double Springs)
Throwing cost out the window which one of these is the most reliable? Which is the most expensive (ISKY?). I have not included double springs, dont want to modify the head.
TIA,
- Nick </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The SLP's 'are' Manley NexTeks. We switched to these a while back. We have not had problems yet and have some engines spinning 7k at .571
- Brian
<small>[ February 17, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: horsepower ]</small>
<strong> Lets get a good valve-spring thread going. Is one better than the other. There are quite a few on the market now that are rated up to .600 lift:
ISKY 295D
COMP 918
Manley 221423
SLP "chrome silicone springs"
LPE Springs (Made by Comp)
REV 1116 (Drop in Double Springs)
Throwing cost out the window which one of these is the most reliable? Which is the most expensive (ISKY?). I have not included double springs, dont want to modify the head.
TIA,
- Nick </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The SLP's 'are' Manley NexTeks. We switched to these a while back. We have not had problems yet and have some engines spinning 7k at .571
- Brian
<small>[ February 17, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: horsepower ]</small>
02-17-2003, 02:05 PM
#40
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Re: Best Valve-Springs on the market..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cal:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> For example, last I heard TR was reccomending a valve-spring check-up (918's) about every 15-20K miles </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nick, what is involved in a spring check-up? Just removing the valve covers and inspecting them, or do the springs have to be remove from the engine? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Im not exactly sure man, call TR and ask them what they do. I know they were measuring seat pressure, but I am not sure if you can do that with the springs installed or not.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> For example, last I heard TR was reccomending a valve-spring check-up (918's) about every 15-20K miles </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nick, what is involved in a spring check-up? Just removing the valve covers and inspecting them, or do the springs have to be remove from the engine? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Im not exactly sure man, call TR and ask them what they do. I know they were measuring seat pressure, but I am not sure if you can do that with the springs installed or not.