What is it?
09-30-2003, 09:53 AM
#21
Re: What is it? Viper,
If the oil looks like a milkshake as you said it did. DO NOT start, drive, run, or otherwise spin that motor (bumping it with a starter while tearing it down or turning it with a breaker bar are acceptable). Driving it will likley cost you a crankshaft and possibly other parts as well. Water is a poor lubricant and the oil/water mix will destroy bearings. I'm afraid that if you drive it to Jersey, you'll be spending alot of extra cash to replace the parts that get destroyed. The "paste" is the oil water mix gettting sucked up (or blown up) to the throttle body. That stuff is foamy and will blow around. I suspect that straight oil will not make it up there, but the water mix may. Pull the spark plugs and see if any of them are "clean". If there is water getting into the cylinder, the steam that combustion causes will "steam clean" that cylinder. That may give you a clue as to where to look for a problem. (and the compression test is the last time I'd spin that motor). If it is a cracked block, cracked head or a bad head gasket, you may no be getting water into the cylinders and they may all look the same (that dosen't mean that you don't have a problem, it will just be harder to locate).
I hope this helps....
Good luck!
Kevin
If the oil looks like a milkshake as you said it did. DO NOT start, drive, run, or otherwise spin that motor (bumping it with a starter while tearing it down or turning it with a breaker bar are acceptable). Driving it will likley cost you a crankshaft and possibly other parts as well. Water is a poor lubricant and the oil/water mix will destroy bearings. I'm afraid that if you drive it to Jersey, you'll be spending alot of extra cash to replace the parts that get destroyed. The "paste" is the oil water mix gettting sucked up (or blown up) to the throttle body. That stuff is foamy and will blow around. I suspect that straight oil will not make it up there, but the water mix may. Pull the spark plugs and see if any of them are "clean". If there is water getting into the cylinder, the steam that combustion causes will "steam clean" that cylinder. That may give you a clue as to where to look for a problem. (and the compression test is the last time I'd spin that motor). If it is a cracked block, cracked head or a bad head gasket, you may no be getting water into the cylinders and they may all look the same (that dosen't mean that you don't have a problem, it will just be harder to locate).
I hope this helps....
Good luck!
Kevin
09-30-2003, 09:53 AM
#22
Re: What is it? Other things to note. I did an ATAP run this morning driving in to work, after clearing the DTC. When I 'stumbled', STFT B1 values jumped from 0.0 to -18, -36.5, -25, then evened out again after the stumble. STFT B2's stayed pretty even, nothing over -10. LTFT's were at -2 for the run, and O2 values were .914 when in WOT mode.
I guess I'm trying to figure out 'which' head gasket might be bad. STFT B1 is driver side head no?
I guess I'm trying to figure out 'which' head gasket might be bad. STFT B1 is driver side head no?
09-30-2003, 09:56 AM
#24
TECH Fanatic
Re: What is it? Viper ...
There are 2 air lines on the [pass. side] next to the TB.
The upper air line going into the side of the TB is the air inlet for the PCV system. That is filtered air. Oil is not going through this line.
The lower line actually attaching to the intake manifold is where your problem is. That line is the line where crankcase vapors are sucked into the intake manifold and burned in the cylinders. From that line is where the oil/water vapors are coming from in your TB.
The PCV system is not designed well on the LS1. It is not unusual for a certain amount of oil / oil vapors to be sucked into the TB area and intake manifold from that lower line. Don't worry about that.
What you need to worry about is the water that is also getting in there. And that moisture is an indication of what is wrong with your engine. In fact you said the oil in the motor looks like a chocolate milkshake.
First of all, I would drive the car as little as possible. Water in the oil plays hell on the bearings, ring packs, etc.
So ... Change out that contaminated oil with some cheap dyno oil (it's just going to get contaminated with coolant anyway) Don't waist your money on high dollar synthetic oil. Save that stuff for after your problem is repaired.
Your main concern right now is getting the head gaskets replaced. You may want to have the cyl heads pressure checked when they are removed, just to insure there are no cracks in them. I would also have the heads re-surfaced slightly to insure they are flat. If they are not perfectly flat, your head gaskets will never seal propery.
Good luck,
Ron
There are 2 air lines on the [pass. side] next to the TB.
The upper air line going into the side of the TB is the air inlet for the PCV system. That is filtered air. Oil is not going through this line.
The lower line actually attaching to the intake manifold is where your problem is. That line is the line where crankcase vapors are sucked into the intake manifold and burned in the cylinders. From that line is where the oil/water vapors are coming from in your TB.
The PCV system is not designed well on the LS1. It is not unusual for a certain amount of oil / oil vapors to be sucked into the TB area and intake manifold from that lower line. Don't worry about that.
What you need to worry about is the water that is also getting in there. And that moisture is an indication of what is wrong with your engine. In fact you said the oil in the motor looks like a chocolate milkshake.
First of all, I would drive the car as little as possible. Water in the oil plays hell on the bearings, ring packs, etc.
So ... Change out that contaminated oil with some cheap dyno oil (it's just going to get contaminated with coolant anyway) Don't waist your money on high dollar synthetic oil. Save that stuff for after your problem is repaired.
Your main concern right now is getting the head gaskets replaced. You may want to have the cyl heads pressure checked when they are removed, just to insure there are no cracks in them. I would also have the heads re-surfaced slightly to insure they are flat. If they are not perfectly flat, your head gaskets will never seal propery.
Good luck,
Ron
09-30-2003, 10:02 AM
#25
Re: What is it? "The upper air line going into the side of the TB is the air inlet for the PCV system. The is filtered air. Oil is not going through this line."
Oddly enough, that is exactly where the paste is. I took off the TB, and directly behind the TB where the upper air inlet is, it's coated with this brown goop. And, on the LS6 intake, it's all gooped up directly where the TB was sitting. And the line from the valve cover to the TB has the brown goop in it. Now, is that supposed to be air FROM the TB TO the valve cover? Like fresh air from the MAF and lid?
Oddly enough, that is exactly where the paste is. I took off the TB, and directly behind the TB where the upper air inlet is, it's coated with this brown goop. And, on the LS6 intake, it's all gooped up directly where the TB was sitting. And the line from the valve cover to the TB has the brown goop in it. Now, is that supposed to be air FROM the TB TO the valve cover? Like fresh air from the MAF and lid?
09-30-2003, 10:02 AM
#26
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Re: What is it? Tin Indian, if you study the picture he provided earlier, you will see that the oil is coming up through the fresh air line, he said that the PCV line is not where the oil is coming from. Not flaming you, just trying to avoid confusion. And yes, if it is water, do not drive it anywhere with that oil. The thing you need to do immediately is change the oil to put to rest any doubts, theories on this situation and find out FOR SURE if there is coolant in the oil.
09-30-2003, 10:11 AM
#27
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Re: What is it? Anti freeze will wipe out a bearing so don't drive it. Anti freeze will kill your O2's as well. This isn't a sleeved engine is it??? Only one way to see if it is a head gasket... Pull the heads.
09-30-2003, 10:16 AM
#29
TECH Fanatic
Re: What is it? Well, I certainly can't tell you for sure which line the water and oil vapors are being introduced into the manifold on your engine since I am setting here in my office in Alabama. But, I can tell you for certain that the upper line is where filtered air enters the valve cover via that upper tube that is attached to the TB. The lower line is where the crankcase vapors are actually sucked into the manifold.
Again, if you have coolant in your crankcase oil, you need to get those heads off the motor. At this point in time, it just makes no difference which of these two lines is introducing 'brown gunk' into the intake.
Again, if you have coolant in your crankcase oil, you need to get those heads off the motor. At this point in time, it just makes no difference which of these two lines is introducing 'brown gunk' into the intake.
09-30-2003, 10:29 AM
#31
TECH Fanatic
Re: What is it? Great ...
Again, don't waist $$ on that synthetic. Save it for your engine after it's fixed. A load of dyno oil ain't going to hurt a thing.
Make sense?
Again, don't waist $$ on that synthetic. Save it for your engine after it's fixed. A load of dyno oil ain't going to hurt a thing.
Make sense?
09-30-2003, 10:32 AM
#32
Re: What is it? Thanks, appreciate any and all help/suggestions.
I just want to drive my car, not keep paying to fix things. I've had a bad 2 year run with stuff going wrong. I had an LT1 Formula for 4 years, twice as many miles and zero problems. Some days I wish I had kept it!!
I just want to drive my car, not keep paying to fix things. I've had a bad 2 year run with stuff going wrong. I had an LT1 Formula for 4 years, twice as many miles and zero problems. Some days I wish I had kept it!!
Exactly
10-01-2003, 07:19 AM
#34
Re: What is it? OK, good news.
The bubbles in the oil is gas. We can smell gas on the dipstick. I'm assuming that's just because I'm rich ay idle and need tuning ( very little done so far with tuning ). Changed the oil, it looked fine, just dirty oil. What I called a milkshake was the gas mixing in. The radiator pressure test was fine, and the coolant looks good. Pulling from my post in the PCM section titled 'SES P0137', we think it was bad gas. I'm at 10.7:1 compression, and I had to fill up at a Marathon, 91 octane. So now I'll run a couple of tanks of 94 Sunoco through. We also put a gauge on the dipstick and revved the engine; thinking if I had too much positive pressure, the gauge would fluctuate. It did not - read fine. We were seeing if that was pushing oil through the line to the TB. So still not sure why I'm getting goop behind the TB, but I reset the SES code last night and filled up with 94; now I have to wait and see. Thank god the heads and gaskets seem fine, and perhaps I jumped the gun with my post. It still bothers me what the goop is, but right now the car is running fine.
The bubbles in the oil is gas. We can smell gas on the dipstick. I'm assuming that's just because I'm rich ay idle and need tuning ( very little done so far with tuning ). Changed the oil, it looked fine, just dirty oil. What I called a milkshake was the gas mixing in. The radiator pressure test was fine, and the coolant looks good. Pulling from my post in the PCM section titled 'SES P0137', we think it was bad gas. I'm at 10.7:1 compression, and I had to fill up at a Marathon, 91 octane. So now I'll run a couple of tanks of 94 Sunoco through. We also put a gauge on the dipstick and revved the engine; thinking if I had too much positive pressure, the gauge would fluctuate. It did not - read fine. We were seeing if that was pushing oil through the line to the TB. So still not sure why I'm getting goop behind the TB, but I reset the SES code last night and filled up with 94; now I have to wait and see. Thank god the heads and gaskets seem fine, and perhaps I jumped the gun with my post. It still bothers me what the goop is, but right now the car is running fine.
10-01-2003, 07:51 AM
#35
TECH Fanatic
Re: What is it? Quote: "Now, is that supposed to be air FROM the TB TO the valve cover? Like fresh air from the MAF and lid"?
If your talking about the tubing that goes from the pass. side valve cover to the throttle body (pass. side) you are correct. That is filtered air which is pulled from the upper side of the TB into the pass. side valve cover.
The baffleing inside the valve covers (below that tube) on these engines is very poor. I don't doubt that the goo has found it's way into the TB.
But, the majority of it is being sucked into the tube that attaches below the upper tube and actually into the manifold (right behind the TB)
And that goop will not only get into the manifold, but it will also get all around the throttle plate. Even though the throttle plate in the TB is upstream (before) that line, it still gets everywhere.
>>> And its more than likely being sucked back into the fresh air line that attaches to the valve cover. Thats why that fresh air line is also covered with the 'goo'.
Ron,
If your talking about the tubing that goes from the pass. side valve cover to the throttle body (pass. side) you are correct. That is filtered air which is pulled from the upper side of the TB into the pass. side valve cover.
The baffleing inside the valve covers (below that tube) on these engines is very poor. I don't doubt that the goo has found it's way into the TB.
But, the majority of it is being sucked into the tube that attaches below the upper tube and actually into the manifold (right behind the TB)
And that goop will not only get into the manifold, but it will also get all around the throttle plate. Even though the throttle plate in the TB is upstream (before) that line, it still gets everywhere.
>>> And its more than likely being sucked back into the fresh air line that attaches to the valve cover. Thats why that fresh air line is also covered with the 'goo'.
Ron,
10-01-2003, 08:36 AM
#37
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Re: What is it? Viper,
Something important to mention here is when you first called me and consulted about your initial coolant leak, you were road coarsing that day, ran hot a couple times and pitted the car, you found a coolant leak in the front right area of the block, re-filled the rad and took the car home, your diagnosis was that the leak was comming from the waterpump seal to block area and you replaced the gasket, fixed. So my summerization would be that it blew a head gasket or it's internally seaping, that would be bad none the less.
Glad to see you found the problem though.
Joe.
Something important to mention here is when you first called me and consulted about your initial coolant leak, you were road coarsing that day, ran hot a couple times and pitted the car, you found a coolant leak in the front right area of the block, re-filled the rad and took the car home, your diagnosis was that the leak was comming from the waterpump seal to block area and you replaced the gasket, fixed. So my summerization would be that it blew a head gasket or it's internally seaping, that would be bad none the less.
Glad to see you found the problem though.
Joe.