Need less power-241 to 806 worth it?
02-11-2009, 09:27 PM
#1
Need less power-241 to 806 worth it? I road race an 2002 Camaro with NASA in the Camaro Mustang Challenge. This year the max power is 260 rwhp and 310 rwtq. I can get to the numbers using a restrictor plate in the bellows. However I want to get my car making as little power as possible in stock form so I can use the biggest restrictor that will give me better throttle response-think nascar restrictor plate racing.
I am swapping my LS6 intake to an LS1.
I have a set of fresh 806's and wondering if it will lower my power enough to make it worth the swap. I have head studs so that makes it easier.
Will the following flow differences make 5-10 less rwhp if I went from my 241's to 806's? Thanks for the help and I understand this goes against virtually every post in this section.
------241--ls6---806--862{5.3l
200 - 134 -135 - 127 - 128
300 - 185 -186 - 179 - 176
400 - 216 -220 - 212 - 204
450 - 222 -233 - 214 - 213
500 - 226 -238 - 220 - 216
550 - 228 -238 - 220 - 210
600 - 228 -236 - 221 - 210
Through the same exact LS6 Intake Manifold
I am swapping my LS6 intake to an LS1.
I have a set of fresh 806's and wondering if it will lower my power enough to make it worth the swap. I have head studs so that makes it easier.
Will the following flow differences make 5-10 less rwhp if I went from my 241's to 806's? Thanks for the help and I understand this goes against virtually every post in this section.
------241--ls6---806--862{5.3l
200 - 134 -135 - 127 - 128
300 - 185 -186 - 179 - 176
400 - 216 -220 - 212 - 204
450 - 222 -233 - 214 - 213
500 - 226 -238 - 220 - 216
550 - 228 -238 - 220 - 210
600 - 228 -236 - 221 - 210
Through the same exact LS6 Intake Manifold
02-11-2009, 11:00 PM
#6
You could do a very good job of neutering it by adjusting the tune alone.
Does anyone make 1.6 rocker arms? That would be good for another 15 or so hp from the stock 1.7s
I thought they would just have you add ballast to offset the additional power.
Does anyone make 1.6 rocker arms? That would be good for another 15 or so hp from the stock 1.7s
I thought they would just have you add ballast to offset the additional power.
Last edited by GMRL; 02-11-2009 at 11:20 PM.
Its going to be tuff unless you stuff potatoes in your tail pipes and tape off half of your lid. Trending Topics
02-12-2009, 08:11 AM
#9
Unrestricted the car makes around 300 rwhp 325 rwtq. Depending on the restrictor I have had it below 250 rwhp 290 rwtq. Last year I ran a 50 mm restrictor and it made 278 rwhp 313 rwtq. Getting the peak power numbers below the limit isn't a problem but then that hurts the throttle response.
The reason to restrict power is to put a bigger group of cars together and level the playing field. That way LT1 and mustangs have close to the same power. They are also attempting to merge two classes and give the 305 TPI and 5.0 some upgrades like headers and restricting the LS1 more to hopefully put everyone at the same power levels. This way it is a drivers class and isn't just who can spend the most money on engines, suspension, brakes, etc.
Unfortunately we aren't allowed to tune the computers, it must be a stock tune. And before you go down the road of still do it, or how do they check it I'm not going to tune the computer.
Have to run exhuast manifolds, but the rest of your exhuast is unrestricted. I have a custom y pipe with cats with a 3" single exhaust without a muffler. I am thinking the exhuast flows pretty well and is hurting my torque. I would like to knock a little HP off the top end and up my torque so I am thinking of going with a stock exhaust setup.
Everyone has to use an approved dyno, Dynojet ###?, with the same settings. At nationals they have a dyno at the track and cars get tested throughout the week and winners get dynoed right after the race.
The reason to restrict power is to put a bigger group of cars together and level the playing field. That way LT1 and mustangs have close to the same power. They are also attempting to merge two classes and give the 305 TPI and 5.0 some upgrades like headers and restricting the LS1 more to hopefully put everyone at the same power levels. This way it is a drivers class and isn't just who can spend the most money on engines, suspension, brakes, etc.
Unfortunately we aren't allowed to tune the computers, it must be a stock tune. And before you go down the road of still do it, or how do they check it I'm not going to tune the computer.
Have to run exhuast manifolds, but the rest of your exhuast is unrestricted. I have a custom y pipe with cats with a 3" single exhaust without a muffler. I am thinking the exhuast flows pretty well and is hurting my torque. I would like to knock a little HP off the top end and up my torque so I am thinking of going with a stock exhaust setup.
Everyone has to use an approved dyno, Dynojet ###?, with the same settings. At nationals they have a dyno at the track and cars get tested throughout the week and winners get dynoed right after the race.
02-12-2009, 02:53 PM
#10
Run 87 octane. The computer should see the low octane fuel and retard timing.
Are you allowed to make changes in the motor? Destroker crank maybe?
By the way, I'm pretty sure that you're the first, and probably the last, person to ever make a thread on LS1tech asking how to make less power.
Are you allowed to make changes in the motor? Destroker crank maybe?
By the way, I'm pretty sure that you're the first, and probably the last, person to ever make a thread on LS1tech asking how to make less power.
02-12-2009, 04:59 PM
#13
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Run 87 octane. The computer should see the low octane fuel and retard timing.
Are you allowed to make changes in the motor? Destroker crank maybe?
By the way, I'm pretty sure that you're the first, and probably the last, person to ever make a thread on LS1tech asking how to make less power.
Are you allowed to make changes in the motor? Destroker crank maybe?
By the way, I'm pretty sure that you're the first, and probably the last, person to ever make a thread on LS1tech asking how to make less power.
02-12-2009, 05:26 PM
#14
I've never liked the idea of relying on the engine to detect knock before it pulls timing - in order to detect it (and use the low octane table), the engine has to actually be knocking. To me, that is not healthy.
If you are trying to lower the timing, do it properly by actually lowering it with a tuner.
02-12-2009, 06:06 PM
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What about one of those resister timing things, some people use them with the IAT to add timing for spray. Could you reverse that into pulling timing, then you wouldn't have to ding those morals and mess with the tune itself. 
02-12-2009, 07:07 PM
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Custom Cam and you may not have to change anything? I'd post this over at hardcorels1 and talk to ed curtis or bret bauer. IMO
Give me a cam smaller then stock...
Give me a cam smaller then stock...
02-12-2009, 07:19 PM
#19
Keep the ideas coming. But we aren't allowed to modify the motor, tune the computer, or use a timing tuner. Yes, I understand this goes against just about every other post on this board.
In searching I couldn't find any definitive posts stating how much the 241 heads were worth over the 806. The best I found was the flow chart above, but I don't know enough about that to tell if the reduction in airflow would correlate to much of a change in power.
One time I ran with it with knock sensors unplugged and the peak power numbers were under the limit but the car had terrible throttle response and felt like a dog. It was much better with the knock sensors working and a restrictor.
Next time I go to the dyno I am going to try and take a stock exhaust to see if that makes a difference.
If the 806's would cut 10 rwhp then I would do it. Would also try to find the thickest head gaskets to reduce compression. I also have a 98 model cam in there right now and I could change the cam to the later model that is less aggressive.
Yes, this is on a road racing course and is way to much fun. Check out this youtube vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUe9rBx8mYA
In searching I couldn't find any definitive posts stating how much the 241 heads were worth over the 806. The best I found was the flow chart above, but I don't know enough about that to tell if the reduction in airflow would correlate to much of a change in power.
One time I ran with it with knock sensors unplugged and the peak power numbers were under the limit but the car had terrible throttle response and felt like a dog. It was much better with the knock sensors working and a restrictor.
Next time I go to the dyno I am going to try and take a stock exhaust to see if that makes a difference.
If the 806's would cut 10 rwhp then I would do it. Would also try to find the thickest head gaskets to reduce compression. I also have a 98 model cam in there right now and I could change the cam to the later model that is less aggressive.
Yes, this is on a road racing course and is way to much fun. Check out this youtube vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUe9rBx8mYA
