Roller rockers or no?
Roller rockers or no? So, I have a hair over .550 lift with my new camshaft, Patriot Golds and, hardened pushrods. This is with stock heads and forced induction, over 500 RWHP.
I was thinking some Scorpions.
Any reason why I should not go with RR's? I was reading the latest GMHTP on valvetrains and roller rockers.
What do you guys think?
I was thinking some Scorpions.
Any reason why I should not go with RR's? I was reading the latest GMHTP on valvetrains and roller rockers.
What do you guys think?
If you have GM head castings and a cam with moderate lift I think the stock rockers are hard to beat, they are light and work very well.
If you get aftermarket heads with different valve geometry and bronze valve guides then roller tipped rockers are required.
I installed my 243's, TR224 cam (0.563 lift) & PAC 1218 springs at about 110k miles. I'm just past 142k miles now, still on the original stock rockers.
If you get aftermarket heads with different valve geometry and bronze valve guides then roller tipped rockers are required.
I installed my 243's, TR224 cam (0.563 lift) & PAC 1218 springs at about 110k miles. I'm just past 142k miles now, still on the original stock rockers.
If you have GM head castings and a cam with moderate lift I think the stock rockers are hard to beat, they are light and work very well.
If you get aftermarket heads with different valve geometry and bronze valve guides then roller tipped rockers are required.
I installed my 243's, TR224 cam (0.563 lift) & PAC 1218 springs at about 110k miles. I'm just past 142k miles now, still on the original stock rockers.
If you get aftermarket heads with different valve geometry and bronze valve guides then roller tipped rockers are required.
I installed my 243's, TR224 cam (0.563 lift) & PAC 1218 springs at about 110k miles. I'm just past 142k miles now, still on the original stock rockers.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Upstate NY
So, I have a hair over .550 lift with my new camshaft, Patriot Golds and, hardened pushrods. This is with stock heads and forced induction, over 500 RWHP.
I was thinking some Scorpions.
Any reason why I should not go with RR's? I was reading the latest GMHTP on valvetrains and roller rockers.
What do you guys think?
I was thinking some Scorpions.
Any reason why I should not go with RR's? I was reading the latest GMHTP on valvetrains and roller rockers.
What do you guys think?
Jon
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The stock heads have very hard valve guides. Your lift is not much more than the LS6 cam. You have the lightest rockers out there for our motors. You are running FI which is a challenge for the valve train. Stay with the GM rockers. I don't think you will see any advantage in hp or valve guide wear with your setup.
I believe Katech and Mr. Handzel both said that the stock rockers shouldn't be used over ~.575" valve lift, but what I saw in the GMHTP article that was new to me was that they stated the bearing and tip of the stock rockers are prone to failure with too much spring pressure, exceeding 400lbs open. Most of the popular LSx double springs do that when setup ~.060" from coilbind. How many threads do we see about roller bearings in the oil pan?
The stock heads have very hard valve guides. Your lift is not much more than the LS6 cam. You have the lightest rockers out there for our motors. You are running FI which is a challenge for the valve train. Stay with the GM rockers. I don't think you will see any advantage in hp or valve guide wear with your setup.
Why all the recommendations for Harland Sharps? Those have failed too. Scorpions do have a nice warranty.
I'm still looking for some more input from you guys.
The stock heads have very hard valve guides. Your lift is not much more than the LS6 cam. You have the lightest rockers out there for our motors. You are running FI which is a challenge for the valve train. Stay with the GM rockers. I don't think you will see any advantage in hp or valve guide wear with your setup.
I agree and will add the Harland Sharp trunion modification. They cleared up early issues they had with this and seem to be on point. The customer service there is top notch as well.
http://www.harlandsharp.com/conversion%20kit.htm
I would definitely stay away from the Scorpions. Pitt-Man lost a motor because of those! (and he's not the only one who had these break!)
I went with YT Ultralite rollers when I found needle bearings from the stock rockers on my drain plug when I had the H/C 346 in my Z06. I am now running them in my 416. Another benefit from the YT's is that they did quiet the valve train down considerably. HTH
Jimbo
I went with YT Ultralite rollers when I found needle bearings from the stock rockers on my drain plug when I had the H/C 346 in my Z06. I am now running them in my 416. Another benefit from the YT's is that they did quiet the valve train down considerably. HTH
Jimbo
Magazines write articles for whoever pays the most money. They are going to put in that article whatever the manufacturer says. The manufacturer is going to say that because they want to sell parts.
Take what you hear from these forums with a grain of salt. For every guy that actually has the knowledge and or experiance, there are 20 know it alls that post replies based off of experiance or what they've heard. Magazines may not always include all of the options or ways of doing a job, but normally, they include respectible shops or knowledge - especially gmhtp. Like i said, most of the time...
Take what I say with a grain of salt as well, but I am a firm believer in doing things the right way that will save you pain and headaches later down the road. Soooo many people experiance needle bearing failure in the stock rockers, I believe it is not worth taking the chance. Spend the $400 for YTs or HSs, or send your stockers out for modification.
Some people have success with stock rockers, while others don't. Just like so many other situations with these cars such as rod bearings, transmissions, ptv clearance w/ certain cams, etc. It's just not worth the chance imo
Take what I say with a grain of salt as well, but I am a firm believer in doing things the right way that will save you pain and headaches later down the road. Soooo many people experiance needle bearing failure in the stock rockers, I believe it is not worth taking the chance. Spend the $400 for YTs or HSs, or send your stockers out for modification.
Some people have success with stock rockers, while others don't. Just like so many other situations with these cars such as rod bearings, transmissions, ptv clearance w/ certain cams, etc. It's just not worth the chance imo
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,979
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From: Upstate NY
You actually don't want advice, you just want affirmation of what you want to do. You will get lots of that from others, but not from me. You can decide whom to trust.
Having Harland Sharp retofit better bearings in stock rockers for $260 is a really good idea. Make sure the Scorpion warranty will fix you engine if the rockers fail. Yeah, right.
One tiny bit of technical advice. Heavier but less stiff rockers (than stockers), heavier (especially dual) springs and retainers cause much higher loads in valvetrains which require more spring to control, which causes things to bend more, which requires more control...and the beat goes on. There are solutions, but I don't see GMHTP (which I read) offering them.
If you want to read something technically useful about valvetrains, read some of the stuff Prof. Gordon Blair writes.
Jon
So, if I where to add Roller Rockers is it just more for piece of mind and saftey issues in the valvetrain or for performance. I have a huge lift cam and have been watching and reading this thread from somewhere around the start of the thread and want to know what is the benefit of rockers? Saftey in the valvetrain on high lift cams?
I would say ditch the patriot golds, put in some good beehives, and either get a new set of stock rockers or have the HS upgrade. Everything Old SStroker said I can confirm. I operated the Optron at Katech for 2 years, and let me tell you, the stock rocker is the lightest, stiffest rocker you will get. And, when you go to a beehive rather than a conventional spring, you loose mass where it matters, at the top. Weight is the true enemy to valvetrain. The light and stiffer, the better.
On another note, the more load you start to put on the valvespring, the higher the chance you run into wrecking the Hydralic roller lifters you have in your engine.
Bottom line, get yourself some good beehives, have your rockers updated and move on. At least then you won't have to worry about grinding on your cylinder head to get an aftermarket rocker arm to fit.
On another note, the more load you start to put on the valvespring, the higher the chance you run into wrecking the Hydralic roller lifters you have in your engine.
Bottom line, get yourself some good beehives, have your rockers updated and move on. At least then you won't have to worry about grinding on your cylinder head to get an aftermarket rocker arm to fit.
I would say ditch the patriot golds, put in some good beehives, and either get a new set of stock rockers or have the HS upgrade. Everything Old SStroker said I can confirm. I operated the Optron at Katech for 2 years, and let me tell you, the stock rocker is the lightest, stiffest rocker you will get. And, when you go to a beehive rather than a conventional spring, you loose mass where it matters, at the top. Weight is the true enemy to valvetrain. The light and stiffer, the better.
On another note, the more load you start to put on the valvespring, the higher the chance you run into wrecking the Hydralic roller lifters you have in your engine.
Bottom line, get yourself some good beehives, have your rockers updated and move on. At least then you won't have to worry about grinding on your cylinder head to get an aftermarket rocker arm to fit.
On another note, the more load you start to put on the valvespring, the higher the chance you run into wrecking the Hydralic roller lifters you have in your engine.
Bottom line, get yourself some good beehives, have your rockers updated and move on. At least then you won't have to worry about grinding on your cylinder head to get an aftermarket rocker arm to fit.