For those who wondered what EL-Torro would do with heads..
04-19-2009, 08:50 PM
#21
Great #'ers. I am sure it is a blast.. Please post some track times if you get any.
Cartek has one of the best OEM casting port programs out there and obviously works well with that cam. You rarely see those #'ers on a cam that size
Awewsome job
Cartek has one of the best OEM casting port programs out there and obviously works well with that cam. You rarely see those #'ers on a cam that size
Awewsome job 
04-20-2009, 12:35 AM
#24
TECH Senior Member
As per advertised specs (.050), your SCR is ~ 11.3:1 (actualy a bit less, so I would say 11.2x), and your DCR shows ~8.53 (actualy a bit less like 8.4x)
So you are in the safe zone, (very safe for premium but it will run on 91, I'm certain)
So you are in the safe zone, (very safe for premium but it will run on 91, I'm certain)
04-22-2009, 12:17 PM
#26
Thanks!! I had faith in you.
Look at the jump in Tq between just 3K and 3.5K. It's amazing. And the car drives smooth as silk. It pulls from the moment you step into it until you hit the rev limiter..and the wild thing is that the setup kept carrying with no drop off. I'm not sure how much more it would have went, but I didn't want to spin it any higher. I have head studs, but that's it.
Look at the jump in Tq between just 3K and 3.5K. It's amazing. And the car drives smooth as silk. It pulls from the moment you step into it until you hit the rev limiter..and the wild thing is that the setup kept carrying with no drop off. I'm not sure how much more it would have went, but I didn't want to spin it any higher. I have head studs, but that's it.
04-23-2009, 03:06 AM
#29
hey predator z have you ever upgraded your z28 to hang with the big dogs on the streets of kuwait? I know you have dedicated your time to cam design and 1/4 mile times, but how about on the open highways of kuwait do you have anything than can compete on a 60-180 mph roll?
04-23-2009, 03:15 AM
#30
04-23-2009, 03:37 AM
#31
TECH Senior Member
hey predator z have you ever upgraded your z28 to hang with the big dogs on the streets of kuwait? I know you have dedicated your time to cam design and 1/4 mile times, but how about on the open highways of kuwait do you have anything than can compete on a 60-180 mph roll?
04-23-2009, 03:41 AM
#32
TECH Senior Member
Predators trick here is the low lobe separation to bring the power band to lower rpm/s along witht the larger intake duration in relation to the exhaust duration that equals a peak torque much lower along with high rpm hp that wil carry on as long as the exhaust is up to the task....
Combo, combo
04-23-2009, 04:46 AM
#33
TECH Senior Member
I saw your posting harcorels1 calling my recommendation a F*****g bad idea for the same cam. (quoting one of my older posts)
Why don't you show them how bad it is.
Note that I am not disputing your knowledge or capabilities, but fact is "Reverse cams do work" providing they are in the right combination parameters.
I am also not saying that they are better or the most power producing. But inn the Trq Vs Hp tug of war, they do find a nice balance in the right combination.
What I deplore is that a man with your experience and vast knowledge, can find nothing better to do than consistantly bash, put down and ridicule others, just because they do not belong to your way of thinking or do things the way you do.
You say, a traditional split of same size will do better in that combo, that may be true. But why don't you then volunteer a spec to show us how, why and where?
Or LS1tech members are only worthy of ridicule. You do talk tech on hardcorels1, why are your post only short and to ridicule in here?
BTW I enjoyed reading all the posts. Surely there are ways of posting tech without hurting your business.
Why don't you show them how bad it is.
Note that I am not disputing your knowledge or capabilities, but fact is "Reverse cams do work" providing they are in the right combination parameters.
I am also not saying that they are better or the most power producing. But inn the Trq Vs Hp tug of war, they do find a nice balance in the right combination.
What I deplore is that a man with your experience and vast knowledge, can find nothing better to do than consistantly bash, put down and ridicule others, just because they do not belong to your way of thinking or do things the way you do.
You say, a traditional split of same size will do better in that combo, that may be true. But why don't you then volunteer a spec to show us how, why and where?
Or LS1tech members are only worthy of ridicule. You do talk tech on hardcorels1, why are your post only short and to ridicule in here?
BTW I enjoyed reading all the posts. Surely there are ways of posting tech without hurting your business.
04-23-2009, 06:02 AM
#34
If you REALLY cared to learn and not just MARKET you would have the ***** to discuss it where it was said.... I literally don't have the freedom to discus the topic here anyways.
I've learned a lot from engine dynoing very accurate high BMEP motors where little small changes can be observed in dyno runs... that knowledge doesn't come free. My WAY stems from what physics and tested theories tell me.
As I have told a lot of shops before... LS motors are idiot proof, you don't have to actually measure things on them and you can put almost anything together and they make good power. It's when you focus on the details and physics where they start to get interesting. You put the cart before the horse with your assumptions that this thing makes good TQ because of the exhaust specs on the cam....
It's too bad you don't apply anything past that.Bret
04-23-2009, 06:38 AM
#35
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This is crazy.
By posting my results here, I wasn't looking to prove that I have the "ultimate setup". I was just posting my results.
As I said before, I'm not an engine guy. I can discuss Advanced Electrical Engineering research/theory with anyone. That doesn't do me any good when it comes to my car, but has shown me that there are often many ways to achieve the desired end result.
So I asked someone that offered to help me freely. There was no compensation involved. And I feel that I ended up with something that makes me happy.
If you think those results were mediocre at best, than that is your opinion. There are plenty of graphs posted with similar setups, but with different camshafts to compare with. Now granted they were tested on different dynos, but from overlaying the graphs, my setup seems to hold it's own fairly well.
The car is not my DD. But with the manners that it has, I could easily drive it every day without any issues. That is what I wanted, and it's what I got.
By posting my results here, I wasn't looking to prove that I have the "ultimate setup". I was just posting my results.
As I said before, I'm not an engine guy. I can discuss Advanced Electrical Engineering research/theory with anyone. That doesn't do me any good when it comes to my car, but has shown me that there are often many ways to achieve the desired end result.
So I asked someone that offered to help me freely. There was no compensation involved. And I feel that I ended up with something that makes me happy.
If you think those results were mediocre at best, than that is your opinion. There are plenty of graphs posted with similar setups, but with different camshafts to compare with. Now granted they were tested on different dynos, but from overlaying the graphs, my setup seems to hold it's own fairly well.
The car is not my DD. But with the manners that it has, I could easily drive it every day without any issues. That is what I wanted, and it's what I got.
04-23-2009, 07:57 AM
#37
CARTEK Racing
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awesome numbers!
I love my 4X heads!
And though my 4X cam is a little different from your cam, I still have a flat torque curve as well.
Looks like an awesome setup dude!
I love my 4X heads!
And though my 4X cam is a little different from your cam, I still have a flat torque curve as well.
Looks like an awesome setup dude!
04-23-2009, 10:06 AM
#38
TECH Senior Member
Ummm Maybe because I'm not being paid too to teach you & others new things, my comment was a COMMENTARY on the nature of the beast here.
If you REALLY cared to learn and not just MARKET you would have the ***** to discuss it where it was said.... I literally don't have the freedom to discus the topic here anyways.
I've learned a lot from engine dynoing very accurate high BMEP motors where little small changes can be observed in dyno runs... that knowledge doesn't come free. My WAY stems from what physics and tested theories tell me.
As I have told a lot of shops before... LS motors are idiot proof, you don't have to actually measure things on them and you can put almost anything together and they make good power. It's when you focus on the details and physics where they start to get interesting. You put the cart before the horse with your assumptions that this thing makes good TQ because of the exhaust specs on the cam.... It's too bad you don't apply anything past that.
Bret
If you REALLY cared to learn and not just MARKET you would have the ***** to discuss it where it was said.... I literally don't have the freedom to discus the topic here anyways.
I've learned a lot from engine dynoing very accurate high BMEP motors where little small changes can be observed in dyno runs... that knowledge doesn't come free. My WAY stems from what physics and tested theories tell me.
As I have told a lot of shops before... LS motors are idiot proof, you don't have to actually measure things on them and you can put almost anything together and they make good power. It's when you focus on the details and physics where they start to get interesting. You put the cart before the horse with your assumptions that this thing makes good TQ because of the exhaust specs on the cam....
It's too bad you don't apply anything past that.Bret
I do not get paid 1 cent for anything I share with others on this site. So no market on my side.
The only joy I get is when a combo makes the power.
If you are unwilling to share for free, just post your price and some poeple will use you.
What annoys me is since you know so much more, and are unwilling to divulge any info, does this make it right for you to ridicule others?
I do not think you were born the way you are, surely you had to learn somewhere.
A big majority of us around here are interested in making combinations that work. We will use any means from cheap to mega $$ to do it.
Not everyone is gonna use custom sheetmetal intakes or 4000$ heads.
With what is on the market, we try to put together combos that gives us as much as possible for the $$ invested.
Yes the LS motors are very forgiving with cathedral port heads, which means they can be tricked in doing things that other motors are too sensitive to.
And when I put together a 230/230 cam that gets results at the track, equal or better than other traditional splits 3 sizes bigger, I say that is results.
BTW the 230/230 is a reverse split at .006 and .200 lifts
Perhaps once in a day, you should reflect on your actions and deeds and ask yourself, "Do I really want to be treated that way?"
04-23-2009, 12:53 PM
#39
Anyone who really wants to know what I think just pays me for it. That's a pretty simple concept that capitalisim was based on.Remember guys all I said was one thing in this thread
It should be called El-Mercadotecnia....
And yes I did learn all of this, and that took me TIME and MONEY. That's not free but I'm EXPECTED to hand feed that to others so they don't have to do the same thing. The thinking around here is that if I don't give it away for free then I'm the right hand man of Osama Bin Laden.
Bret
