Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

Sure, I would sell it . I'd have to have it checked out before I'd sell it that way you'd get what you pay for but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be fine

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

After reading all of this, I have come up with the following:

If done correctly, i.e. by Darton or a competently trained group with the proper equipment there should be no issues with this setup at all at least N/A wise. Is this a correct assumption?

There, in my opinion, looks to be no way to drop a sleeve, crack a sleeve, basically no way to disrupt block integrity in comparison to something like the C5R, under N/A motor conditions, correct? It should be identical in function to the C5R in terms of non-sleeve issues and it's stronger than the C5R, too, correct?


If these assumptions are correct, based up on the info in this thread and using the proper head gaskets and a properly set-up block then there should be no reason for a block failure on a N/A setup, correct? No more chance of failure in comparsion to the C5R block, correct?


Thanks.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Steve - Thanks for the correction. This is an awesome and absolutely information packed thread.

You almost have me convinced the Darton blocks are a worry free option.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Steve - You mentioned the 98 LS1 is a good block to re-sleeve, but Gen III uses newer LS6 blocks; is this because they are easier to come by? I own a 98 and was thinking of getting a new LS6 re-sleeved, but wouldn't mind re-using my original block Which do you prefer, also do you deal direct with end-users, if so where can we get some pricing?

Thanks.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

He's almost done the same for me. Just need some more clarification from him

JS

iTrader: (4)

Canniball I wasnt knocking u buddy...
Just pointing out to OTHERS be careful with certain shops that say they can build a SUPERSTROKER.

This is alot of $$$ and I would let any other shop do a Darton MDS sleeve than the ones I already listed.

U are in good hands with Steve..
Good luck bro...

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I'm not worried as much about the Darton sleeves on a Big Bore or a super stroker. Getting the tune right so cylinder wash doesn't occur sort of scares the hell out of me after seeing a couple of threads about this over the last few weeks.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

No problem man . I understand your advice

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

Have ya' fired up the ride yet?

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

I was away this past week working the Darton booth at the PRI show held in Indianapolis. Sorry for the delay replying to your post.

The Cometic gaskets are now available for the LS1 - LS6 MID sleeved blocks. Bob Gorman of Cometic made modifications to his dies and came up with an excellent purpose built gasket to work with the Darton MID sleeves. We had one on the display block in the booth.

Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development

Bear

iTrader: (1)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by InvisibleSun
MMS is putting a Darton wet sleeved 427 in my car. Should be up and running by the end of next week.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My Darton Wet Sleeve 427 will be fired up on Monday. I will have some feedback on Tues. I am goint to pick up the car on Fri. so I wont have a full report till then. I am nervous already as it is bone chilling cold here in NY and we all know what was said about the block in the cold.

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

The LS1 blocks are difficult to get new - the reason why Scott uses LS6 blocks. I did a new LS1 block for Judsen of SAM about three weeks back so there are some still kicking around. Best however would be to use an old used block like the one in your car, which would be seasoned from many heating cooling cycles. This would eliminate the need to stress relieve a new block during the machining process. I now have all brand new blocks Metalax stress relieved after roughing out the block to artificially season them. I then do the finish machine work when they come back from Metalax.

The LS1 has a drilled crankcase breather hole instead of the large windows cast in the LS6 block. The block is stronger for this reason. The LS1 block also has a slightly wider deck surface which gives more area for the head gasket to seal.

You can not however use your '98 heads with the MID block. I don't have a picture of the early head at the moment but there is a U shaped cut in the deck surface of the head located on the exhaust side between two cylinders. This cut out will intersect the MID groove and cause a major coolant leak. You need to weld up this recess and deck the head flat on these early heads. The later model (late 99 and newer) do not have this recess cast into the head surface and need no modification.

Yes, I do installs for end customers as well as many of the sponsors of this site. I intend to be a sponsor myself shortly. I prefer not to post prices on this site. Those interested in prices can call me at: 760-630-0450 after 9 am Pacific time or e-mail me directly at:
race-engine-development@***.net. I'm as close as your Fed Ex or UPS parcel office.

By the way, Air Flow research will have their new heads (two port volume versions) available very shortly. I saw the first finished castings at the PRI show. There will be an upcoming story in Hot Rod Magazine on these heads. Plan is to do a complete engine buildup in a future issue both stock displacment and one with a Darton MID sleeved stroker motor. Heads are beautifully finished with much attention given to high flow numbers with modest cross sectional areas. Should give great torque as well as much improved horsepower over stock ported heads.

Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

Thanks man!

Scott Turvey

Hey all,

I just saw the latest on this, and Steve's right on about the availability of the LS6 being my reason for using them over the LS1. Because I have only being using newer head castings, I have also not had to deal with the U-shaped cut in the earlier heads either.



What we really need is for a vendor to start producing an aftermarket block like AFR is doing for the heads. With Edelbrock introducing their carbureted manifold for the LS1, we have a better chance at that now. While that may seem unrelated at first look, the reason Edelbrock created the carb intake was to allow the LS1 to be used by sanctioning bodies that don't allow EFI. We're talking NHRA and NASCAR on the big end. Once the Pro Stock gear-rowers get a hold of the LS1, you can bet an aftermarket block will become available quicker than they can say "How-come-there’s-all-these-dadburned-holes-in-my-enjun!”



At least that's my dream...

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

This has to be the very best thread about the Darton Wet's...I may still get the nerve try one...

What's a Metalax stress relief? Heating and Cryoing the block?

Can/should Cryoing be used to prep the block for Darton wets?

As for the carb'd intakes in NASCAR, it's my understanding the GMPP single plane was created for this not the Edelbrock. The GMPP has/will shortly have an adapter plate to allow fuel pump, gear driven distrubetor up front & a new water pump. The GMPP is the true LS1 carb racing set up. Likewise, the GMPP single plane LS1 intake can also be used with port fuel injection. There is an ignition system coming for the engine what uses the stock crank sensor so a crank trigger & wheel aren't needed. BTW - my source on this is very solid.

With the Edelbrock being a dual plane, it wouldn't seem to be ideal for NHRA or NASCAR stuff for the most part IMO. This looks much more like a street intake as currently offered for hotrods etc IMO.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

This is the best thread on the Dartons, period. Thanks to Steve and Scott for their IMMENSELY helpful replies and effort. The Darton MID looks to be the real deal for 1/3 of the price of the C5R block! And it's stronger!

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Steve & Scott

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Scott & Steve,

Is the Rottler CNC block machine precise enough ie 1/2 of a thounsandth, to do the Darton Wets on with the correct program?

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

The machine itself is accurate enough. The problem is the machine has no coolant cabability. It's next to impossible to hold sizes without flood coolant when machining aluminum. I have attached a picture of machining with flood coolant on my machine.

Metalax is a vibratory stress relief process. It has nothing to do with cryogenics. Basically, the block, crankshaft, whatever is firmly clamped to the Metalax machine table. It is then set to vibrate for a set period of time depending on the piece. They take a resonance reading and plot a graph, vibrate some more and take another reading with graph. They continue vibrating and taking resonance readings until the last two graphs overlap. At this point the piece is considered stress relieved.

It is my understanding that most Nascar chassis builders also metalax the frame structure and roll cage, etc. while welding the car together. Metalax keeps the warpage during welding to a minimum.

Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Steve! That's an amazing picture - WOW!

I understand the heat build up could be an issue.

Could one cut slowly to avoid the excessive heat build up without the cooling fluid?