Critique my H/C combo and please help suggest me a better cam
06-27-2009 | 12:07 AM
#22
Junk *** heads and super inefficent converter are killing your combo.
Nothing wrong at all with patriot heads but those 97-98 heads they make are 67-68cc chambers that does nothing to bump your compression and have a massive intake port that kills the velocity of the head. I believe gunnar told me they were a 237 CC intake runner, which is grossly oversize for a stock shortblock car That was 3 years back when I had those same heads in my garage. Since then every company even patriot have heavily revised there CNC programs. LSX technology has made HUGE strides over the last 2-5 years
Nothing wrong at all with patriot heads but those 97-98 heads they make are 67-68cc chambers that does nothing to bump your compression and have a massive intake port that kills the velocity of the head. I believe gunnar told me they were a 237 CC intake runner, which is grossly oversize for a stock shortblock car That was 3 years back when I had those same heads in my garage. Since then every company even patriot have heavily revised there CNC programs. LSX technology has made HUGE strides over the last 2-5 years
06-27-2009 | 04:22 AM
#24
you could see anywhere from 30-45RWHP by bolting those up.
There in my opinion, the best head patriot has to offer
06-27-2009 | 04:31 AM
#25
i also totally missed that you have an LS2 intake choking that car down. while a nice ported fast setup would net solid gains for you, even an ls6 would be an improvement over the ls2 intake.
06-28-2009 | 09:41 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 276
Likes: 2
From: Clinton Twp, MI
I bought these heads on my car from Patriot in summer 2008
The stock injectors were not maxed out.
I think the car will run good at the track. It does great from a dig. It just kinda sucks from a roll. My old heads/cam LT1 Trans Am convertible felt significantly faster from a roll.
The stock injectors were not maxed out.
I think the car will run good at the track. It does great from a dig. It just kinda sucks from a roll. My old heads/cam LT1 Trans Am convertible felt significantly faster from a roll.
06-28-2009 | 10:04 PM
#27
They have not done the welded up chambers for quite some time now.....like several years......
06-28-2009 | 10:36 PM
#28
most automagics are not very good from a roll. Your converter is not going to lock from a roll and it is not very efficient.
If the car runs good from a stop, enjoy it. IF you want to roll race, put a 6spd in it.
If the car runs good from a stop, enjoy it. IF you want to roll race, put a 6spd in it.
07-19-2009 | 11:01 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 276
Likes: 2
From: Clinton Twp, MI
Car is a 1998 Camaro SS, A4
Mods are:
FRA mod
KN filter
Lid
85 mm MAF
90mm TB
Ported LS2 intake
Patriot 97-98 stage 2 CNC ported heads ( flow 292 intake, 216 exhaust @ .600 lift
Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114 cam
1 3/4 stainless longtube headers
2.5 true duals, x pipe, dumped
160 thermostat
25% UD pulley
Fuddle 3300, 1.9 STR stall
3.73 gears in a 10 bolt
Rear tires are 315/35/17 nittos. Stock fuel injectors
Dyno was done at Vector Motorsports (across the street from Katech) on their Mustang dyno.
Numbers are:
370 RWHP@ 6500 and 321 torque @ 5400 UNLOCKED
390 RWHP @6600 and 346 torque @ 5200 LOCKED
Car is mostly a street car, sees some track time. It runs really good from a dead stop, but from a roll it isnt the greatest. I was thinking about upgrading the stall to a 3500 and 1.8 STR but I dont want gas mileage and driveability to suffer.
Based upon the cam I have now, ( Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114) Is there a better cam that would give me a better low end and higher RWHP numbers? It would be nice to make the power at a lower RPM lets say 6200 vs the 6600 I am reving to now.
Im thinking new cam numbers of:
228/232 625/625 114
Would that be a better cam for me?
Vector did tell me that their stage 2 cam would get me to about 420 RWHP. Anyone know the specs on that?
Mods are:
FRA mod
KN filter
Lid
85 mm MAF
90mm TB
Ported LS2 intake
Patriot 97-98 stage 2 CNC ported heads ( flow 292 intake, 216 exhaust @ .600 lift
Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114 cam
1 3/4 stainless longtube headers
2.5 true duals, x pipe, dumped
160 thermostat
25% UD pulley
Fuddle 3300, 1.9 STR stall
3.73 gears in a 10 bolt
Rear tires are 315/35/17 nittos. Stock fuel injectors
Dyno was done at Vector Motorsports (across the street from Katech) on their Mustang dyno.
Numbers are:
370 RWHP@ 6500 and 321 torque @ 5400 UNLOCKED
390 RWHP @6600 and 346 torque @ 5200 LOCKED
Car is mostly a street car, sees some track time. It runs really good from a dead stop, but from a roll it isnt the greatest. I was thinking about upgrading the stall to a 3500 and 1.8 STR but I dont want gas mileage and driveability to suffer.
Based upon the cam I have now, ( Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114) Is there a better cam that would give me a better low end and higher RWHP numbers? It would be nice to make the power at a lower RPM lets say 6200 vs the 6600 I am reving to now.
Im thinking new cam numbers of:
228/232 625/625 114
Would that be a better cam for me?
Vector did tell me that their stage 2 cam would get me to about 420 RWHP. Anyone know the specs on that?
Thanks
07-20-2009 | 08:02 AM
#30
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 1
From: Western Burbs of Detroit
I'd listen to Ron. Its not really your cam, its partially the heads/cam being unmatched on lift/flow. Your cam has too much lift for my taste. I'd really like to see you run some TFS 215's on that b*tch with a cam that has lift numbers no higher then .625, which coincidenatally matches the PEAK flow of the TFS 215's.
Been told by some Big names, Select your heads, match your cam to the characteristics of the heads, and add the rest (intake, exhaust etc)
Again listen to Ron@Vengeance, he was trying to point you in the right direction. He sure got me straightened out.
Been told by some Big names, Select your heads, match your cam to the characteristics of the heads, and add the rest (intake, exhaust etc)
Again listen to Ron@Vengeance, he was trying to point you in the right direction. He sure got me straightened out.
Last edited by allngn_c5; 07-21-2009 at 06:17 AM.
07-20-2009 | 08:31 AM
#31
Start with one thing at a time. Get an LS6 Intake of ebay, or get a Fast 90, since you have a 90mm throttle body already. If you dont want to change your heads, but are still not happy with the power you have. Get a nitrous system and put that on there. 422 Shipped from HSW. That will fix any power problems.
If you have the money? Get a Yank, Better Heads, a Fast Intake and T/B. And, I would imagine a 30- 40 hp gain over your current setup. Good Luck
If you have the money? Get a Yank, Better Heads, a Fast Intake and T/B. And, I would imagine a 30- 40 hp gain over your current setup. Good Luck
08-23-2009 | 08:07 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 276
Likes: 2
From: Clinton Twp, MI
Car is a 1998 Camaro SS, A4
Mods are:
FRA mod
KN filter
Lid
85 mm MAF
90mm TB
Ported LS2 intake
Patriot 97-98 stage 2 CNC ported heads ( flow 292 intake, 216 exhaust @ .600 lift
Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114 cam
1 3/4 stainless longtube headers
2.5 true duals, x pipe, dumped
160 thermostat
25% UD pulley
Fuddle 3300, 1.9 STR stall
3.73 gears in a 10 bolt
Rear tires are 315/35/17 nittos. Stock fuel injectors
Dyno was done at Vector Motorsports (across the street from Katech) on their Mustang dyno.
Numbers are:
370 RWHP@ 6500 and 321 torque @ 5400 UNLOCKED
390 RWHP @6600 and 346 torque @ 5200 LOCKED
Car is mostly a street car, sees some track time. It runs really good from a dead stop, but from a roll it isnt the greatest. I was thinking about upgrading the stall to a 3500 and 1.8 STR but I dont want gas mileage and driveability to suffer.
Based upon the cam I have now, ( Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114) Is there a better cam that would give me a better low end and higher RWHP numbers? It would be nice to make the power at a lower RPM lets say 6200 vs the 6600 I am reving to now.
Im thinking new cam numbers of:
228/232 625/625 114
Would that be a better cam for me?
Vector did tell me that their stage 2 cam would get me to about 420 RWHP. Anyone know the specs on that?
Mods are:
FRA mod
KN filter
Lid
85 mm MAF
90mm TB
Ported LS2 intake
Patriot 97-98 stage 2 CNC ported heads ( flow 292 intake, 216 exhaust @ .600 lift
Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114 cam
1 3/4 stainless longtube headers
2.5 true duals, x pipe, dumped
160 thermostat
25% UD pulley
Fuddle 3300, 1.9 STR stall
3.73 gears in a 10 bolt
Rear tires are 315/35/17 nittos. Stock fuel injectors
Dyno was done at Vector Motorsports (across the street from Katech) on their Mustang dyno.
Numbers are:
370 RWHP@ 6500 and 321 torque @ 5400 UNLOCKED
390 RWHP @6600 and 346 torque @ 5200 LOCKED
Car is mostly a street car, sees some track time. It runs really good from a dead stop, but from a roll it isnt the greatest. I was thinking about upgrading the stall to a 3500 and 1.8 STR but I dont want gas mileage and driveability to suffer.
Based upon the cam I have now, ( Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114) Is there a better cam that would give me a better low end and higher RWHP numbers? It would be nice to make the power at a lower RPM lets say 6200 vs the 6600 I am reving to now.
Im thinking new cam numbers of:
228/232 625/625 114
Would that be a better cam for me?
Vector did tell me that their stage 2 cam would get me to about 420 RWHP. Anyone know the specs on that?
I am still running the stock push-rods. Could the stock pus-rods be holding me back at all? Do I need a different length?
08-23-2009 | 08:36 PM
#34
I think your missing the point everyone is trying to make. You are making the right numbers for what your combo is. Getting more power requires replacing some poorly chosen parts(based on what you were expecting out of it). As stated you need a ls6 intake or fast and different heads. the cam is not going to make up enough for the inefficiency of the intake and heads.
08-24-2009 | 01:48 AM
#35
for more power get rid of those heads (10 year old technology) an intake (little to no gain over LS1 intake on LS1 engine) $300 gets you an LS6 intake used on this site.
That cam is strong and proven. It is NOT the week point on your setup.
for performance you need a Vigilante, Yank, or Circle D converter. I had a VIG 3200 (stalled around 3500 on the street) and it was perfectly well manored for a DD. However to maximize the capability of your cam i would go 3600+.
I really dont think your tuner/builder knows enough about these motors to help you.
That cam is strong and proven. It is NOT the week point on your setup.
for performance you need a Vigilante, Yank, or Circle D converter. I had a VIG 3200 (stalled around 3500 on the street) and it was perfectly well manored for a DD. However to maximize the capability of your cam i would go 3600+.
I really dont think your tuner/builder knows enough about these motors to help you.
08-29-2009 | 07:20 PM
#36
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 276
Likes: 2
From: Clinton Twp, MI
Car is a 1998 Camaro SS, A4
Mods are:
FRA mod
KN filter
Lid
85 mm MAF
90mm TB
Ported LS2 intake
Patriot 97-98 stage 2 CNC ported heads ( flow 292 intake, 216 exhaust @ .600 lift
Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114 cam
1 3/4 stainless longtube headers
2.5 true duals, x pipe, dumped
160 thermostat
25% UD pulley
Fuddle 3300, 1.9 STR stall
3.73 gears in a 10 bolt
Rear tires are 315/35/17 nittos. Stock fuel injectors
Dyno was done at Vector Motorsports (across the street from Katech) on their Mustang dyno.
Numbers are:
370 RWHP@ 6500 and 321 torque @ 5400 UNLOCKED
390 RWHP @6600 and 346 torque @ 5200 LOCKED
Car is mostly a street car, sees some track time. It runs really good from a dead stop, but from a roll it isnt the greatest. I was thinking about upgrading the stall to a 3500 and 1.8 STR but I dont want gas mileage and driveability to suffer.
Based upon the cam I have now, ( Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114) Is there a better cam that would give me a better low end and higher RWHP numbers? It would be nice to make the power at a lower RPM lets say 6200 vs the 6600 I am reving to now.
Im thinking new cam numbers of:
228/232 625/625 114
Would that be a better cam for me?
Vector did tell me that their stage 2 cam would get me to about 420 RWHP. Anyone know the specs on that?
Mods are:
FRA mod
KN filter
Lid
85 mm MAF
90mm TB
Ported LS2 intake
Patriot 97-98 stage 2 CNC ported heads ( flow 292 intake, 216 exhaust @ .600 lift
Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114 cam
1 3/4 stainless longtube headers
2.5 true duals, x pipe, dumped
160 thermostat
25% UD pulley
Fuddle 3300, 1.9 STR stall
3.73 gears in a 10 bolt
Rear tires are 315/35/17 nittos. Stock fuel injectors
Dyno was done at Vector Motorsports (across the street from Katech) on their Mustang dyno.
Numbers are:
370 RWHP@ 6500 and 321 torque @ 5400 UNLOCKED
390 RWHP @6600 and 346 torque @ 5200 LOCKED
Car is mostly a street car, sees some track time. It runs really good from a dead stop, but from a roll it isnt the greatest. I was thinking about upgrading the stall to a 3500 and 1.8 STR but I dont want gas mileage and driveability to suffer.
Based upon the cam I have now, ( Thunder racing cam 227/227 640/640 114) Is there a better cam that would give me a better low end and higher RWHP numbers? It would be nice to make the power at a lower RPM lets say 6200 vs the 6600 I am reving to now.
Im thinking new cam numbers of:
228/232 625/625 114
Would that be a better cam for me?
Vector did tell me that their stage 2 cam would get me to about 420 RWHP. Anyone know the specs on that?
It rained a little bit when I was there. The first run I spun so bad I just coasted to the end. The next 3 runs were consistant but not very good
Run 1 / Run 2 / Run 3
60 ft 2.1 2.09 2.05
1/4 ET 13.0 12.92 12.90
MPH no MPH 106.5 106.9
Like I said it rained there. Car does have suspension mods. 17 PSI in the nitto drag radials.
I'm not worried about the times at all cause of the traction issues, but isnt that 106 MPH pretty weak for a 390 RWHP H/C/I/E car?
08-29-2009 | 07:49 PM
#37
Converter, converter, converter...
I have seen 7-10 mph from the right converter. I have a customer with a 99 SS running 11.50's at 119 with that cam and a custom PTC 3500 converter. STOCK heads and FAST 90/90. Dyno'd 399 on a Dynojet.
Shane
I have seen 7-10 mph from the right converter. I have a customer with a 99 SS running 11.50's at 119 with that cam and a custom PTC 3500 converter. STOCK heads and FAST 90/90. Dyno'd 399 on a Dynojet.
Shane
Last edited by XtraCajunSS; 08-29-2009 at 07:56 PM.
08-29-2009 | 08:56 PM
#38
I don't know why everyone is telling you to get an LS6 intake. I thought that ported LS2's made just as much power as an LS6. Dyno numbers don't mean everything either - we need some track times (when it's dry) so we can really see what kind of power it really makes. Interesting post earlier in the thread about those heads having a 237cc intake port...that seems way too big for a 346 IMO.
08-30-2009 | 08:20 PM
#39
Wow, the 98 PP stage 2s are 237cc..interesting. I have these heads on my setup too, my numbers also seem on the low side. Im running a VRX5 with an LS6 intake through a 9" making 390/370.
