Tea 1.5 And Cam Problems?
Originally Posted by ne14a6t9
if you do a search under tea heads you will find alot of guys with lower than expected dyno numbers with larger lift cams. what you will find is tea heads stall at 550 or around 550 lift, when you add a cam with 581 lift there is a period of turbulent flow that huts power, you may wan to have the heads flowed independantly so you can select a cam that best performs with them
Your the biggest pus nuts on this board. Your mis-quoting data I collected from my SPECIFIC heads.
Since you have no experience with the product, didn't collect the data and don't own the heads ***** OFF.
Originally Posted by ne14a6t9
Brian I have a few questions that I am asking in the most proffesional matter
1- why did you have Judson design the ls6 port for you?
2- are you capable of designing your own ls6 port design that will perform up to par with others in the industry?
3- what wiring harness are you talking about, the engine harness or dyno harness?
4- how many sets have you gotten back from low dynoing cars and did you find anything in the heads that could play a role in low results?
5- do you really think a well working wiring harness can cuase major loss in power?
1- why did you have Judson design the ls6 port for you?
2- are you capable of designing your own ls6 port design that will perform up to par with others in the industry?
3- what wiring harness are you talking about, the engine harness or dyno harness?
4- how many sets have you gotten back from low dynoing cars and did you find anything in the heads that could play a role in low results?
5- do you really think a well working wiring harness can cuase major loss in power?
My experience with wiring harness if it was a bad ground or loose connection it would cause a driveability problem or intermittent electrical problems.But my car runs great no problems.
Originally Posted by ne14a6t9
Brian I have a few questions that I am asking in the most proffesional matter
"1- why did you have Judson design the ls6 port for you?"
Because we could only get 320 @ .600" and rumors was Judson was almost 340, I also saw Judson here in Bowling Green 2 years ago running 9's on MOTOR while I watched the supposed BIG DOGS of that era fighting to run 9's with power adders. There are several heads that we are the best in the country on, it is all about R & D time, and honestly since I bought the CNC I have LESS time to develop ports then before I had one, so from a business stand point it only makes sense to do the best product you can, I pay royalties to several people and some ports I just pay $1000 for outright, I can make more money doing what I do and pay someone else for the ports. Three years ago I didn't think I would have a 5 axis simultaneous CNC, two years ago I didn't think I would be paying other people for ports, but time has a way of changing things.
2- are you capable of designing your own ls6 port design that will perform up to par with others in the industry?
Who else is getting more then the 320 @ .600" that we could get? I don't know of anyone, but Judson's 330 port is better and more stable up top, his valve job technology is better and believe it or not his valve was 10 cfm better then ours. I don't know of anyone else that can touch him, except for maybe Cartek, but I don't know their numbers, except at the track, and they are impressive.
3- what wiring harness are you talking about, the engine harness or dyno harness?
Duh, the engine wiring harness. I know you are going to go into some discertation about how this is not possible or something, but consider this. He is an ICON of the industry, he dyno tests more LS1 stuff then anyone, he is more knowledgable then anyone I know on LS1's and if he says he has seen 50 HP with a wiring harness then believe it! I'm sure in all your vast experience you have tested dozens of harnesses and found them all to be the same.
4- how many sets have you gotten back from low dynoing cars and did you find anything in the heads that could play a role in low results?
So far none, and I have made the offer to a few, it is a standing offer to anyone who has our heads. If you are not happy I will send a replacement set, install them and send back the others. Or if you have the time to wait we will simply inspect the ones off the car but most people don't have that kind of time.
5- do you really think a well working wiring harness can cuase major loss in power?
"1- why did you have Judson design the ls6 port for you?"
Because we could only get 320 @ .600" and rumors was Judson was almost 340, I also saw Judson here in Bowling Green 2 years ago running 9's on MOTOR while I watched the supposed BIG DOGS of that era fighting to run 9's with power adders. There are several heads that we are the best in the country on, it is all about R & D time, and honestly since I bought the CNC I have LESS time to develop ports then before I had one, so from a business stand point it only makes sense to do the best product you can, I pay royalties to several people and some ports I just pay $1000 for outright, I can make more money doing what I do and pay someone else for the ports. Three years ago I didn't think I would have a 5 axis simultaneous CNC, two years ago I didn't think I would be paying other people for ports, but time has a way of changing things.
2- are you capable of designing your own ls6 port design that will perform up to par with others in the industry?
Who else is getting more then the 320 @ .600" that we could get? I don't know of anyone, but Judson's 330 port is better and more stable up top, his valve job technology is better and believe it or not his valve was 10 cfm better then ours. I don't know of anyone else that can touch him, except for maybe Cartek, but I don't know their numbers, except at the track, and they are impressive.
3- what wiring harness are you talking about, the engine harness or dyno harness?
Duh, the engine wiring harness. I know you are going to go into some discertation about how this is not possible or something, but consider this. He is an ICON of the industry, he dyno tests more LS1 stuff then anyone, he is more knowledgable then anyone I know on LS1's and if he says he has seen 50 HP with a wiring harness then believe it! I'm sure in all your vast experience you have tested dozens of harnesses and found them all to be the same.
4- how many sets have you gotten back from low dynoing cars and did you find anything in the heads that could play a role in low results?
So far none, and I have made the offer to a few, it is a standing offer to anyone who has our heads. If you are not happy I will send a replacement set, install them and send back the others. Or if you have the time to wait we will simply inspect the ones off the car but most people don't have that kind of time.
5- do you really think a well working wiring harness can cuase major loss in power?
When can I stop defending myself against ignorant people like yourself? Everytime you post I can't help but wonder if you are one of my competitors posing as a troll??
Thread Starter
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I dont no if i have the time.. To take off my heads any time soon.. I need the car to get to work.. Its my daily driver. So what you are telling me is that.. It might be possible that the heads where sent out of your shop and not done correctly.?? I hope that is not the case..
I just want the heads to make the power that they are souposed to be making.. They arent cheep heads and I was expecting to make some dame good HP gains..
but almost 50hp and only 43tq is not what I was thinking i was geting when i was buying my heads and cam from TEA
I no that the car doesent have a TB or a Pulley But with even puting the kit on a pretty much stock LS1 schouldent it make at least more then that? at the wheels??
I just want the heads to make the power that they are souposed to be making.. They arent cheep heads and I was expecting to make some dame good HP gains..
but almost 50hp and only 43tq is not what I was thinking i was geting when i was buying my heads and cam from TEA
I no that the car doesent have a TB or a Pulley But with even puting the kit on a pretty much stock LS1 schouldent it make at least more then that? at the wheels??
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
in one of my conversations with Judson at S.A.M. he said they have found up to 50 HP in the wiring harness alone. He has seen on his dyno changing nothing but the harness BIG power differences.
I have a lot of respect for Judson and the SAM school, but there is something wrong with this statement. If the wiring harness had problems that big, you would notice it way before you got to the dyno. Also, this would be a very rare problem or we would have heard about it by now. I'm not putting down your heads, just this statement. Maybe you missunderstood somethng Judson said. I'm an electrical engineer, BTW.
Originally Posted by chevydan
12.7.1 I think
ne14a6t9 - Let me ask you this....do you have any experience porting heads? Hell have you ever even seen a set of LS1 heads off a car so that you can look at the ports, valves, etc.? You keep bashing TEA, but you yourself did not have a bad experience with them so WTF is up with that? I have spoken in person for hours with 99 Black Bird T/A about his set of heads, and you know what, he didn't have one bad thing to say abou them now. Have you ever heard of *cough*Mustangs*cough*? I know its not proper to mention those on this board..ha..but check out TEA's record with them. Class winner after class winner. Now I'm not saying by any means that their LSx heads are not up to par, but you know what, if they never sold another set of LSx heads I bet they'd still do just fine. You keep bringing up your stupid questions in every post they make, or any post regarding TEA in general, and none of them are based on fact - they are all based on what you heard. Try getting some first hand knowledge on the subject at hand and then step back into the discussion.
Super - there are so many different possibilities of what could be wrong. For instance, there was a guy locally with a 409 iron block who got on the dyno the same day I did 39x rwhp with a cam only, and he put down 430 with not much more under the curve. Well come to find out his exhaust was not up to par, and once he changed that and retuned he made good power. I only use that as an example. Shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to discuss some suggestions with you. Not trying to flame you by any means, just want to see fellow LSx guys happy with their setups.
Super - there are so many different possibilities of what could be wrong. For instance, there was a guy locally with a 409 iron block who got on the dyno the same day I did 39x rwhp with a cam only, and he put down 430 with not much more under the curve. Well come to find out his exhaust was not up to par, and once he changed that and retuned he made good power. I only use that as an example. Shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to discuss some suggestions with you. Not trying to flame you by any means, just want to see fellow LSx guys happy with their setups.
Superslow and chevydan something is wrong with your setup period. Look at it this way with that cam, lid, pulley and a cut out through a 12 bolt with 4.11's I made 396.9rwhp. I then added a ported tb and dynoed 403.5rwhp cam only. I then added a TH400 which sucks atleast 35-40rwhp and Tea heads, on 7 cylenders I dynoed 388.3rwhp. Something is wrong and I don't think it's the heads. Get your A/F to 13.1/1 timing to 31* add a cut out and pulley and see where you stand. I have the macs and I see no better header for the money. If they suck why are my #'s so good? How much timing are you guys seeing under load at wide open? The heads may be your problem but I doubt it. And as for TEA heads flowind 250 throgh a ZO6 intake, ALL heads are going to loose 40cfm through that intake. I have flowed several heads (GTP,TEA,and local porter)with it and they all lost 40cfm. Hope this help you guys some.
I met Brian Tooley at the Thunder shootout and I can tell he is a stand up Guy. He never once sounded like someone who is out to screw anybody even though the Mosqitoes were eating us alive he still never tried to shew us off. Nice meeting you Brian.
Now as for the low hp , I have Mac headers , c1 cam and local ported heads that only have bowl work and 2.02 valves . stock exh valves and only flow257 intake and 223 exh but I am putting down 400.3rwhp and 388 tq through a 12 bolt and my car weighs 3726 lbs and with the 17 inch wheels and 315 Nittos on back I was running 11.8's at the THunder shootout @117.8 mph through the cutout. Now to slow my car down I closed the cutout and was running a best of 11.98 at 115 mph. 2 to 3 mph through a cutout so if you dont have on ,get one. Learn to leave on Nittos and you can pull low1.7 60 ft's and run 11's with your power.
If you dont have a ported throttle body and asp pully,get one. My car dynoed at Thunder raceing 1 year ago with the same set up and 4.10 gears in stock rear and with out ported t/b and asp pully, it only made 389hp and 382 tq through the cut out and 372hp 372tq through the cat back. Now with more miles on set up and 12bolt with 4.10 gears and ported tb and asp pully Through cutout went 400.3hp and 388tq. If you notice that I lost 18 hp through the Muffler last year Then That is why I like my cutout. THe Edelbrock catback puts out a great deep rumble with no rasp and I use it to slow my car to 12.00's when They tell me to slow down without a cage.
Dont get on the Hp number kick, My car runs great for the package I have and if I dropp down to 3500 rw or lower and put on skinnies and slicks then I am sure my car would run well off in the low 11's as well as anybody's but I am not willing to gut my show /strip/street car yet. You have The hp to run low 11's if you take out some weight or high to mid 11's if you just learn to drive it with that kind of power. Enjoy It , dont bash it.
Now as for the low hp , I have Mac headers , c1 cam and local ported heads that only have bowl work and 2.02 valves . stock exh valves and only flow257 intake and 223 exh but I am putting down 400.3rwhp and 388 tq through a 12 bolt and my car weighs 3726 lbs and with the 17 inch wheels and 315 Nittos on back I was running 11.8's at the THunder shootout @117.8 mph through the cutout. Now to slow my car down I closed the cutout and was running a best of 11.98 at 115 mph. 2 to 3 mph through a cutout so if you dont have on ,get one. Learn to leave on Nittos and you can pull low1.7 60 ft's and run 11's with your power.
If you dont have a ported throttle body and asp pully,get one. My car dynoed at Thunder raceing 1 year ago with the same set up and 4.10 gears in stock rear and with out ported t/b and asp pully, it only made 389hp and 382 tq through the cut out and 372hp 372tq through the cat back. Now with more miles on set up and 12bolt with 4.10 gears and ported tb and asp pully Through cutout went 400.3hp and 388tq. If you notice that I lost 18 hp through the Muffler last year Then That is why I like my cutout. THe Edelbrock catback puts out a great deep rumble with no rasp and I use it to slow my car to 12.00's when They tell me to slow down without a cage.
Dont get on the Hp number kick, My car runs great for the package I have and if I dropp down to 3500 rw or lower and put on skinnies and slicks then I am sure my car would run well off in the low 11's as well as anybody's but I am not willing to gut my show /strip/street car yet. You have The hp to run low 11's if you take out some weight or high to mid 11's if you just learn to drive it with that kind of power. Enjoy It , dont bash it.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: SW Florida
Jeeeeeez ...... What the hell is the deal with the constant slamming of TEA?
Everybody played nice on up to maybe 2 or 3 months ago. Then, all of a sudden, a select group of individuals got real 'brand loyal' for some reason and started slamming TEA. If any of you remember, TEA was the first head porter that actually supplied LS1 heads for a reasonable price. Certainly was little or no slamming going on then. Everyone was bending over and thanking TEA for producing a quality head at a more than reasonable price.
Of course, nothing ever stays the same. Now we have certain head porters that have purchased a set of these reasonably priced TEA ported heads, digitized them, and produced a replica for sale themselves. Hey, I suppose that's business .... but, before someone starts to point fingers at TEA by questioning TEA's decision to team up with Justin @ SAM for an improved port design maybe ought to look elsewhere if all they want to do is continue this needless finger pointing.
Who here can honestly say that they have been screwed by TEA? That company has bent over backwards to provide a very high quality head for a fair price, and continues to improve it's product. That product improvment has partially happened by consulting with SAM. I can't see a damned thing wrong with that.
Bottom line, buy from whoever you feel comfortable with. All these head porters produce a good product. But, lets stop all the rock throwing!
Ron,
Not a pimp for TEA
Everybody played nice on up to maybe 2 or 3 months ago. Then, all of a sudden, a select group of individuals got real 'brand loyal' for some reason and started slamming TEA. If any of you remember, TEA was the first head porter that actually supplied LS1 heads for a reasonable price. Certainly was little or no slamming going on then. Everyone was bending over and thanking TEA for producing a quality head at a more than reasonable price.
Of course, nothing ever stays the same. Now we have certain head porters that have purchased a set of these reasonably priced TEA ported heads, digitized them, and produced a replica for sale themselves. Hey, I suppose that's business .... but, before someone starts to point fingers at TEA by questioning TEA's decision to team up with Justin @ SAM for an improved port design maybe ought to look elsewhere if all they want to do is continue this needless finger pointing.
Who here can honestly say that they have been screwed by TEA? That company has bent over backwards to provide a very high quality head for a fair price, and continues to improve it's product. That product improvment has partially happened by consulting with SAM. I can't see a damned thing wrong with that.
Bottom line, buy from whoever you feel comfortable with. All these head porters produce a good product. But, lets stop all the rock throwing!
Ron,
Not a pimp for TEA
Originally Posted by chevydan
Cal i have the same setup as superslow and superslow i am thinking about pulling the heads and sending them back so brian at tea can check them.
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From: Bowling Green, KY
Have you guys put a degree wheel on the camshaft or checked your chain slack. So many things to cause these problems. Dan your timing was at a streetable 28 and your a/f i thought was 12.9-13.0
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Iam guess that I prob also will be sending the heads back to Brian so that he can fix them Not schure exactly when iam going to but I think that its prob the best thing to do.. If there is a problem.. Then they will be able to fix it that way it doesent happen again.
Iam not trying to throw any rocks, iam just trying to get help with my problem and so far I have gotten help
Chevydan has the same setup with the same problems.?? And like every one else is saying its not that common for a car with these heads and this cam to make only close to 400hp and 400tq
I read somthing earler today where someone said they
made 443hp or some thing like that.. With this setup.
Iam not trying to put down TEA I like there heads if i dident like them I wouldent have bought them in the first place but now that there on iam not geting the power gain's I schould be geting.... Don't no whats wrong just not working out for me the way i planned.
These heads are not cheep I saved for long time to get enough money to get there heads and cam for my car from TEA and if they are not working up to parr on my car and Chevydans car then I guess we schould just send them back so that they can fix the problem..
Iam not trying to throw any rocks, iam just trying to get help with my problem and so far I have gotten help
Chevydan has the same setup with the same problems.?? And like every one else is saying its not that common for a car with these heads and this cam to make only close to 400hp and 400tq
I read somthing earler today where someone said they
made 443hp or some thing like that.. With this setup.
Iam not trying to put down TEA I like there heads if i dident like them I wouldent have bought them in the first place but now that there on iam not geting the power gain's I schould be geting.... Don't no whats wrong just not working out for me the way i planned.
These heads are not cheep I saved for long time to get enough money to get there heads and cam for my car from TEA and if they are not working up to parr on my car and Chevydans car then I guess we schould just send them back so that they can fix the problem..