Iron 6.0 build/internal help come in
Iron 6.0 build/internal help come in First off I have sold my stroked LTX and am moving into the LSX world
I am going to build a 370 w/ a direct port kit w 200 hit
Here is a list of what I already have:
6.0 iron block (lQ4) I also have a LQ9, but LQ4 is in better shape
Scat H-beam w/ arp 2000 rod bolts
Wiseco 12.5:1 pistons w/ 65cc head--pn k447x3
trick flow 225 cnc heads--have a little work done to improve low and mid lift
harland sharp roller rockers
Fast 92 mm Intake
ARP head studs/main studs
This is a list of questions that I have. I was hoping I could get a little help from the LSX crowd
1. How do I find how much my piston is "out of the hole" without assembling
shortblock? I am looking for 12.0:1 compression
2. I was looking at the vindicator cam, any suggestions?
3. Are the cadillac lifters that much better than the LS7's ?
4. Can this be done on pump gas w/ a dedicated fuel system for the Nitrous?
5. Any suggestions on a torque converter (th350) ?
I have a turbo 350 tranny, but will have to have a new converter for the LSX.
I am running a 10 bolt with 3.73 gears and a zexel torsion diff.
All help is appreciated.
I am going to build a 370 w/ a direct port kit w 200 hit
Here is a list of what I already have:
6.0 iron block (lQ4) I also have a LQ9, but LQ4 is in better shape
Scat H-beam w/ arp 2000 rod bolts
Wiseco 12.5:1 pistons w/ 65cc head--pn k447x3
trick flow 225 cnc heads--have a little work done to improve low and mid lift
harland sharp roller rockers
Fast 92 mm Intake
ARP head studs/main studs
This is a list of questions that I have. I was hoping I could get a little help from the LSX crowd
1. How do I find how much my piston is "out of the hole" without assembling
shortblock? I am looking for 12.0:1 compression
2. I was looking at the vindicator cam, any suggestions?
3. Are the cadillac lifters that much better than the LS7's ?
4. Can this be done on pump gas w/ a dedicated fuel system for the Nitrous?
5. Any suggestions on a torque converter (th350) ?
I have a turbo 350 tranny, but will have to have a new converter for the LSX.
I am running a 10 bolt with 3.73 gears and a zexel torsion diff.
All help is appreciated.
No caddy lifters are usually not worth the extra coin. you can spin them to a higher rpm but they were designed around a smaller lift cam. they often fail in performance applications as a result Just use the standard Ls7 lifters. Not sure on the cam specs your gonna run, but if your worried about lifter problems then go with the morels for peice of mind.
This is the cam I am thinking about running, but am open to suggestions:
240/244 .605/.596 112 LSA. 2800-7000 Rpm Power Band. Explosive mid range and top end. This camshaft is our most popular creation yet. You can find this camshaft in some of the fastest LSX combinations in the world. Looking for 400 plus rwhp in your stock headed application?? The Vindicator is your answer. With more power under the curve than the other "larger camshafts" out there and explosive top end power the Vindicator is your answer. We suggest 4:10 rear gear for M6 or 4000+ Stall in A4. Computer tuning is required for optimal results. Dual Gold springs are required. We suggest checking P/V on all applications.
I ran morels on my LTx. They were pretty pricey @ 500 bones
240/244 .605/.596 112 LSA. 2800-7000 Rpm Power Band. Explosive mid range and top end. This camshaft is our most popular creation yet. You can find this camshaft in some of the fastest LSX combinations in the world. Looking for 400 plus rwhp in your stock headed application?? The Vindicator is your answer. With more power under the curve than the other "larger camshafts" out there and explosive top end power the Vindicator is your answer. We suggest 4:10 rear gear for M6 or 4000+ Stall in A4. Computer tuning is required for optimal results. Dual Gold springs are required. We suggest checking P/V on all applications.
I ran morels on my LTx. They were pretty pricey @ 500 bones
i vote ls7 lifters as well. but it depends on the power of the car, and im assuming with your setup you should be close to 600+ on the gas to the wheels so you may want to spend a little more money.
i would ask the guys that have the ls7 lifters in high hp applications and see what you find. i personally am going to go with them when i do my cam swap since the engine will be open, but im probably going to do a mild cam with stock 243 heads so my power will be way below yours
i would ask the guys that have the ls7 lifters in high hp applications and see what you find. i personally am going to go with them when i do my cam swap since the engine will be open, but im probably going to do a mild cam with stock 243 heads so my power will be way below yours
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ls7 lifters are fine, have seen them break with high HP- as someone stared earlier.
Vindicator cam is a great off the shelf cam, and would do great with your setup. or you can go custom. your choice.
yes this can be done on pump gas a dedicated fuel system as long as you are wet. get a ractronics kit, fuel rails, injectors. you will be on the limit, but only the A/F will tell you. Nitrous Outlet, and harris speed both have a good stand alone system.
as far a TC go- look into the guys at FTI. They have some awsome converters, and the track backs them up.
Vindicator cam is a great off the shelf cam, and would do great with your setup. or you can go custom. your choice.
yes this can be done on pump gas a dedicated fuel system as long as you are wet. get a ractronics kit, fuel rails, injectors. you will be on the limit, but only the A/F will tell you. Nitrous Outlet, and harris speed both have a good stand alone system.
as far a TC go- look into the guys at FTI. They have some awsome converters, and the track backs them up.
Well, this build is not exactly "budget oriented",and I would toss the idea of using a "stock" lifter. Drop the extra coin, and get ya a set of Morel's and call it done. A couple hundred extra $$$ over "stock" lifters, and teh piece of mind it brings, is a no brainer if you ask me. Done some research, and if it seems the LS series has a "weak" link, the lifter is up there as being one of them 
Cam you spec'd out, is a little on the "small side" for a 12:1 370" motor with the 225 TFS' But, it is known that it IS better to go smaller than to big on cam selection for better avg power. Just wanted to throw that out there.
But, all in all it sounds like you have a well thought out plan, on one that will make power.
Pump gas with 12:1 and nitrous (even with dedicated fuel system)? Pushing the boundaries with that much compression though. My setup is 12:1 as well, and I plan on being able to use Pump Gas, but with some octane boost thrown in to be safe.
If you want to be SAFE, I would come down on compression some, like in 11:1-11.5:1. All it takes is one water'd down tank of gas, and bye bye.
10 bolt probaly gonna break if you put sticky tires on it.
Turbo 350 is a great tranny
Oh yeah...converter....depends onwhat your plans are..track/street/both? Weight of car? Etc..
Cam you spec'd out, is a little on the "small side" for a 12:1 370" motor with the 225 TFS' But, it is known that it IS better to go smaller than to big on cam selection for better avg power. Just wanted to throw that out there.
But, all in all it sounds like you have a well thought out plan, on one that will make power.
Pump gas with 12:1 and nitrous (even with dedicated fuel system)? Pushing the boundaries with that much compression though. My setup is 12:1 as well, and I plan on being able to use Pump Gas, but with some octane boost thrown in to be safe.
If you want to be SAFE, I would come down on compression some, like in 11:1-11.5:1. All it takes is one water'd down tank of gas, and bye bye.
10 bolt probaly gonna break if you put sticky tires on it.
Turbo 350 is a great tranny
Oh yeah...converter....depends onwhat your plans are..track/street/both? Weight of car? Etc..
Oh, forgot about "out of the hole" question.
Well, probaly the biggest thing is finding out if the block has been decked or not, that is gonna be your biggest obstacle if just trying to figure this out in your garage.
Also, your pistons, need to know specs on that as well.
But, you can start with half stock stroke:
1.811" add your rod length (are they 6.125"?) and that is:
7.936"
Stock deck height is @ 9.240
So, if you can find out the dimensions on your pistons (add that to your 7.936") and then subtract that total from your deck height of @ 9.240" and that will get you CLOSE. But remember, NOT exact. Really need to have deck measured to know EXACTLY how much your piston is "out of the hole" or even "in the hole" just depending on your setup.
Well, probaly the biggest thing is finding out if the block has been decked or not, that is gonna be your biggest obstacle if just trying to figure this out in your garage.
Also, your pistons, need to know specs on that as well.
But, you can start with half stock stroke:
1.811" add your rod length (are they 6.125"?) and that is:
7.936"
Stock deck height is @ 9.240
So, if you can find out the dimensions on your pistons (add that to your 7.936") and then subtract that total from your deck height of @ 9.240" and that will get you CLOSE. But remember, NOT exact. Really need to have deck measured to know EXACTLY how much your piston is "out of the hole" or even "in the hole" just depending on your setup.
Well, this build is not exactly "budget oriented",and I would toss the idea of using a "stock" lifter. Drop the extra coin, and get ya a set of Morel's and call it done. A couple hundred extra $$$ over "stock" lifters, and teh piece of mind it brings, is a no brainer if you ask me. Done some research, and if it seems the LS series has a "weak" link, the lifter is up there as being one of them
Cam you spec'd out, is a little on the "small side" for a 12:1 370" motor with the 225 TFS' But, it is known that it IS better to go smaller than to big on cam selection for better avg power. Just wanted to throw that out there.
But, all in all it sounds like you have a well thought out plan, on one that will make power.
Pump gas with 12:1 and nitrous (even with dedicated fuel system)? Pushing the boundaries with that much compression though. My setup is 12:1 as well, and I plan on being able to use Pump Gas, but with some octane boost thrown in to be safe.
If you want to be SAFE, I would come down on compression some, like in 11:1-11.5:1. All it takes is one water'd down tank of gas, and bye bye.
10 bolt probaly gonna break if you put sticky tires on it.
Turbo 350 is a great tranny
Oh yeah...converter....depends onwhat your plans are..track/street/both? Weight of car? Etc..
Cam you spec'd out, is a little on the "small side" for a 12:1 370" motor with the 225 TFS' But, it is known that it IS better to go smaller than to big on cam selection for better avg power. Just wanted to throw that out there.
But, all in all it sounds like you have a well thought out plan, on one that will make power.
Pump gas with 12:1 and nitrous (even with dedicated fuel system)? Pushing the boundaries with that much compression though. My setup is 12:1 as well, and I plan on being able to use Pump Gas, but with some octane boost thrown in to be safe.
If you want to be SAFE, I would come down on compression some, like in 11:1-11.5:1. All it takes is one water'd down tank of gas, and bye bye.
10 bolt probaly gonna break if you put sticky tires on it.
Turbo 350 is a great tranny
Oh yeah...converter....depends onwhat your plans are..track/street/both? Weight of car? Etc..
But, if you can tell us what your intentions are (goals so to speak), and more about the car, can get a better idea of what it is you are trying to do.I mean, no point in going small if this is a track only car, follow me? But if this is primarily a street car, cam specs out rather well (even might want to "tighten" it up some, like a 114 LSA) for better idle characteristics.
Again, it all depends on what it is you want to do.
Oh, forgot about "out of the hole" question.
Well, probaly the biggest thing is finding out if the block has been decked or not, that is gonna be your biggest obstacle if just trying to figure this out in your garage.
Also, your pistons, need to know specs on that as well.
But, you can start with half stock stroke:
1.811" add your rod length (are they 6.125"?) and that is:
7.936"
Stock deck height is @ 9.240
So, if you can find out the dimensions on your pistons (add that to your 7.936") and then subtract that total from your deck height of @ 9.240" and that will get you CLOSE. But remember, NOT exact. Really need to have deck measured to know EXACTLY how much your piston is "out of the hole" or even "in the hole" just depending on your setup.
Well, probaly the biggest thing is finding out if the block has been decked or not, that is gonna be your biggest obstacle if just trying to figure this out in your garage.
Also, your pistons, need to know specs on that as well.
But, you can start with half stock stroke:
1.811" add your rod length (are they 6.125"?) and that is:
7.936"
Stock deck height is @ 9.240
So, if you can find out the dimensions on your pistons (add that to your 7.936") and then subtract that total from your deck height of @ 9.240" and that will get you CLOSE. But remember, NOT exact. Really need to have deck measured to know EXACTLY how much your piston is "out of the hole" or even "in the hole" just depending on your setup.
By piston dimesions do you mean compression height?
Using compression height and 9.230 deck, I came up with .006 out of the hole
It has to be more though, my piston spec sheet shows compression height from bottom of piston skirt to bottom of oil ring. This piston has a dome and a volume of 12cc. Any help with this?
Both of the blocks that I have are undecked. I pulled them from trucks. I believe the lq4 dech height is 9.230?
By piston dimesions do you mean compression height?
Using compression height and 9.230 deck, I came up with .006 out of the hole
It has to be more though, my piston spec sheet shows compression height from bottom of piston skirt to bottom of oil ring. This piston has a dome and a volume of 12cc. Any help with this?
By piston dimesions do you mean compression height?
Using compression height and 9.230 deck, I came up with .006 out of the hole
It has to be more though, my piston spec sheet shows compression height from bottom of piston skirt to bottom of oil ring. This piston has a dome and a volume of 12cc. Any help with this?
Well, my book shows 9.240, and that is why I say to get it perfect it needs to be measured.
Yes.
What do you mean it has to be more? In that, you want it be more out of the hole than .006? Or you are saying your math does not add up?
That may be correct (9.240). I got the 9.230 off of Wiseco's web site.
I don't really want the piston out of the hole more. I was just saying that because my pistons have a pretty good dome. According to my piston spec sheet, the compression height of my pistons is 1.3 inches. This is shown to be measured from the bottom of the skirt to the bottom of the oil ring. Does it not matter if you have a dome or not? I just want to make sure that I don't have any PTV clearance problems.
compression height on the piston, should be from the center of pin hole, to the top "flat"area of the piston (not including the dome). Assume you have flat tops essentially....the dome fits within the combustion chamber of the head so does not get included in the C.H. dimension.
9.240 is the stock iron truck block deck height....9.230 is the stock aluminum block (supposedly). My opinion is you really won't know until you mock it up. Or you can find a machine shop that has the right equipment to measure it for you.
The c.h. has a tolerance, the rod length, stroke, and deck height of the block all have tolerances.....see why you can't really calculate it on paper exactly
9.240 is the stock iron truck block deck height....9.230 is the stock aluminum block (supposedly). My opinion is you really won't know until you mock it up. Or you can find a machine shop that has the right equipment to measure it for you.
The c.h. has a tolerance, the rod length, stroke, and deck height of the block all have tolerances.....see why you can't really calculate it on paper exactly
. According to my piston spec sheet, the compression height of my pistons is 1.3 inches. This is shown to be measured from the bottom of the skirt to the bottom of the oil ring. Does it not matter if you have a dome or not? I just want to make sure that I don't have any PTV clearance problems.
Well, compression height is in reference from teh pin to teh top of teh piston (not downwards) Compression height is VERY critical in how long of a rod and much much stroke you can put into a block. Shorter the compression height is teh "weaker" teh piston, and one that is not good for forced induction motors. That is why anything more than a 4.00 stroke in our blocks, is not ideal for forced induction, because of how short the compression height.
Reguardless of your measurements (in the hole, out of hole, etc...) you HAVE to check PTV. You just have to, ESPECIALLY with a domed piston
Edit: The reasons above is why it is SO IMPORTANT to get teh right engine builder, because NOTHING can be taken for granted. You can NEVER assume ANYTHING when putting a motor together. Check, then double check. And that is why GOOD machine shops charge what they charge, because it takes time to do it right!
