broken retainer... help please!!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, MS
broken retainer... help please!! Sorry this might be a little long but any help will be very appreciated!
i just dropped a ls6 motor in my 01 t/a with built tranny, stalled.
mods.
full bolt ons, isky custom grind 236/242 600 610 112+2 cam
now i had the motor work done at Los Vages Motors and im starting to wonder what brand springs and retainers were actually installed(thought isky) they are dual springs and tittanium retainers, not sure if all tittanium is made equally or not, but i cranked my car and heard somethings jumping around crazy in the head, so i instantly shut her down.(obviously the retainer lol but i only found 3/4 of it in the head later) then thats when my bright dad decided to recrank her then the sound went to the center of the motor but sounded more like it was from the slack of the missing retainer, not like the other 1/4 of the retainer, it was tapping and more with the rotation of the assembly. is it possible the 1/4 of it made it to the pan without damaging anything and with the slack of missing retainer could it of caused a cracked piston or damaged anything else? Im hoping for the best, im only 20 and on a budget O and only got 1800 miles on her before all this!
Any suggestions or help would be very appreciated! let me no if there is any other info i can provide i may of left something small out but i have to rush to work.
thanks again
i just dropped a ls6 motor in my 01 t/a with built tranny, stalled.
mods.
full bolt ons, isky custom grind 236/242 600 610 112+2 cam
now i had the motor work done at Los Vages Motors and im starting to wonder what brand springs and retainers were actually installed(thought isky) they are dual springs and tittanium retainers, not sure if all tittanium is made equally or not, but i cranked my car and heard somethings jumping around crazy in the head, so i instantly shut her down.(obviously the retainer lol but i only found 3/4 of it in the head later) then thats when my bright dad decided to recrank her then the sound went to the center of the motor but sounded more like it was from the slack of the missing retainer, not like the other 1/4 of the retainer, it was tapping and more with the rotation of the assembly. is it possible the 1/4 of it made it to the pan without damaging anything and with the slack of missing retainer could it of caused a cracked piston or damaged anything else? Im hoping for the best, im only 20 and on a budget O and only got 1800 miles on her before all this!
Any suggestions or help would be very appreciated! let me no if there is any other info i can provide i may of left something small out but i have to rush to work.
thanks again
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, MS
If any other info is needed im more than happy to provide it.
thanks again Brad
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, MS
ok, i went back under the hood and studied the spring with the missing retainer and i found the rest of the retainer still retained inside the spring. but my rocker arm dropped inside the spring and i notice the spring was broken also. now my question is (and i no ill have to do a compression test or take the head off) but what is the possiblity this caused the piston to crack? and could this all be because my cam is to big? 236 242, 600 615 @ 112+2 lsa, if so cant i just change my push rod length to avoid this again? i no there is a formula to figure this out from what ive been told. but id rather get an oppinion from someone on this site, seems to be of a lot more help!
thanks again brad
thanks again brad
You can't just go throwing pushrods and springs at it... You need to take a step back and take some measurements... If you dropped a valve, you need to take that head off regardless. Go from there... Check PTV clearance. Invest in an adjustable pushrod length checker. If this is a new motor, get a hold of the builder before you tear into it.
there is a big possibility you bent a valve or damaged a piston or both. you have to take the head off.
also i don't know how a retainer breaks like that. are you sure you installed all the valve locks correctly ?
also i don't know how a retainer breaks like that. are you sure you installed all the valve locks correctly ?
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ok, i went back under the hood and studied the spring with the missing retainer and i found the rest of the retainer still retained inside the spring. but my rocker arm dropped inside the spring and i notice the spring was broken also. now my question is (and i no ill have to do a compression test or take the head off) but what is the possiblity this caused the piston to crack? and could this all be because my cam is to big? 236 242, 600 615 @ 112+2 lsa, if so cant i just change my push rod length to avoid this again? i no there is a formula to figure this out from what ive been told. but id rather get an oppinion from someone on this site, seems to be of a lot more help!
thanks again brad
thanks again brad
If the engine was assembled by a shop, which your initial post seems to indicate, I'd get in touch with them before opening it up and voiding any warranty that may exist.
And no, you can't change the net lift of the cam with pushrods. Lower-ratio rockers might be an option, but you'll need to measure piston-valve clearance in order to make an informed decision.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
You probably heard the piston smacking the valve. IMO you need to make the poeple who built the motor aware of what happened. Do not take anything else apart before you contact them, otherwise they might blame you for the incident.
If they are a standup shop they should waranty their work or parts for a period of time as long as no power adders was used.
If they are a standup shop they should waranty their work or parts for a period of time as long as no power adders was used.
My guess is that the spring broke first and beat the retainer up right before you shut it off.
There is a chance the piston is cracked, or theres a chance it isnt.
Do a compression test/leak down test to determine that before pulling the head.
Since some place did the motor, you really need to call them NOW and tell them what happened and discuss options. Ask them for some proof (like a reciept if you dont have one already) of the valve springs and push rods they used. Find out if they checked PtV clearance and measured for the correct lifter preload.
Sounds like the springs dont have enough pressure to me, but it could be several things.
Good luck dude
There is a chance the piston is cracked, or theres a chance it isnt.
Do a compression test/leak down test to determine that before pulling the head.
Since some place did the motor, you really need to call them NOW and tell them what happened and discuss options. Ask them for some proof (like a reciept if you dont have one already) of the valve springs and push rods they used. Find out if they checked PtV clearance and measured for the correct lifter preload.
Sounds like the springs dont have enough pressure to me, but it could be several things.
Good luck dude
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, MS
ok just talked to the builder, he's sending me another spring and retainer... but is it going to be a good idea to just change just that one out with a new spring and retainer? and what would be some other things yall might do in the prosses, like go ahead and take the head off and have my valves reset, kinda on a budget? almost forgot when i talked to him he was in a rush but dont know if he heard me or was working or just ignoring the fact but when i asked about ptv clearance he didnt say anything other than he had to go and text him my mailing address???
thanks for all the help brad
thanks for all the help brad
**** I just orderd the patriot gold kit, your the first person I hear that has had issues...
But it seems like you have some other issues and your parts aren't sized for your large cam..
i hope im ok with my 220-224 cam and these springs.
keep us updated on what you find bro. Sounds like your builder isnt being very helpfull either....
What kind of builder sends you a new spring & retainer to install when you tell them you dropped a valve??? Wow. IF they aren't going to investigate and fix the problem, then the answer is "NO"... You shouldn't just replace the spring & retainer... Pull the head, assess the damage and go from there. If you've got a coil bind, PTV or other issue, it's just going to happen again and MUCH more likely in a more damaging manner.
this guy sends you 1 new spring and retainer when we all know that the piston or the valve is damaged and need's replacement. what an engine builder you have chosen
do not install them and run the car, because there will be a chance of you causing even more damage, and that is going to be your fault.
do not install them and run the car, because there will be a chance of you causing even more damage, and that is going to be your fault.