elias_799

iTrader: (8)

^^^ building a motor is not something you can just put your finger on, and there is not allot of people out there that are willing to teach. even if you offer to work for free.

scarey39560

guess computer didnt bring up the last 2 or 3 post before i wrote my last post. i can break into the motor myself and do all the work other than the machine work. just not sure how to check for ptv clearence. im saying hell with the builder other than maybe getting some more parts for his **** up, the hole reason i paid him to do it was so i could just swap my motors. your right about the hole just have to do it your self sometimes to have it done right, and the motor was the only thing i had built out of my garage.thanks again for all the input

scarey39560

[QUOTE=scarey39560;12021841]guess computer didnt bring up the last 2 or 3 post before i wrote my last post.

yea thats what i was thinking! i figured i would have to take the head off and do a little more than change the spring b/c i think i've got a bit more of a problem then changing just spring and retainer. if i were to just do a compression test to ensure no piston damage and the spring n retainers, buy the fitting that will screw in the spark plug hole with an air hose adapter to keep the valve up then let the air off to check for a bent valve, could i get away with checking it that way? or should i just take the head off


guess im having some computer problems now, GREAT! lol... but this was the post i was refering to, i cant find anywhere.

PREDATOR-Z

If you suspect piston damage or drop valve and your shop will not do anything; you have but one choice: Remove the head and inspect visualy.

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

If your dad cranked that motor before you replaced that spring and retainer you need to go out to the desert and dig a big hole in the ground. Take your dad out there and show him the hole you dug. Robert Deniro will tell you what happens next.

scarey39560

ok thanks man... say i get luck, for say, and i only bent a valve, what would you do to ensure this would not happen again? or anything else?

I started to think about the last few weeks i had the car running, and i remembered a week maybe 2 before all this happened(about 200 to 400 miles later) i was messing around with a ls2 gto. and i normally watch my rpm's and shift at around 4500 to 5000 when i had over 1500 miles on it, well this time i ran her up to 6900 maybe 7...... could this possibly be what caused my spring to crack then to the retainer when it finally gave out? and this not be a clearence problem?

PREDATOR-Z

For clearance you need to measure. But all of this is just speculation. You need to walk before you run. Step 1 is to take the head off
Bent valve means the head will have to go for inspection. You do not have valve reliefs in that motor?

Best scenario, you only have a bent valve and no real further damage. At that point I would replace the springs and valve.

As I said speculation is only that. Take the head off and find out the truth and go from there.

scarey39560

thanks for all the help man! i had a feeling i was gonna have to take the head off but i was gonna try getting around it. ill prolly be able to take my heads off today talked to a buddy yesterday thats a machanist and should be able to hook me up and some p&p... just wanted to make sure but i do have to change all my springs and retainers? after all head and valve work, and can i get away with changing the broken spring only or all springs? only 1800 miles on motor. thanks again for all the help

PREDATOR-Z

Well that depends if you are able to determine what the cause of the misshap is. If it is the spring that failed first instead of the retainer, then the springs are the issue and if it were me I change them all.
You could just change one spring but what if another breaks and you are back to square 1.
Try to contact the shop and find out what exact springs are in there and at which height they were installed.

elias_799

iTrader: (8)

don't forget to post pics

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

Agreed....except for one part: We are talking about a shop that just sends out a spring and retainer as a "fix" for this engine, seemingly without any other concern. My suggestion is to pull BOTH heads, take them to your machinist friend, and have him properly check the spring installed heights after repairing any damage, and then keep in mind the need to check pushrod lengths as well as checking piston deck height (just my 2 cents here) and calculate quench with whatever head gasket thickness you are using since you're already there. After all, the ability/thoroughness of your engine builder is in question here. Don't ask them, check/verify it all YOURSELF so there is no doubt that things are set up right. Also, as added insurance, you might think of lightening up the valvetrain (pushrods/keepers/retainers) to help prevent damage from over-revving in the future.

-Just my opinions here, but also exactly what I would do in your situation. Good luck, hope it all comes out good in the end. :-)

scarey39560

thanks for all the input! i think im just gonna take my heads to my machanic, and change to roller rockers, im kinda on a budget and i no its hard to do when it comes to internals and making the power im looking for but i also dont want to end up (as said before) back to spuare one with the spring deal. might take me 2 weeks before i can get it all done and parts on order but its sounding like the best way to go. my builder left me a message asking what degree my retainers were??? how would i check for that exactly and could this be my problem he put the wrong retainers in?

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

Damn! Did this "builder" even have a clue what he was putting together?!?! He built the thing, and does not even know what he put in it??? As far as going with roller rockers...one question: Why would you do that when others are making GOBS of power with the good 'ol factory ones. Don't get me wrong....if you have the funds to just throw at them, then go for it....but I think that you would do MUCH better to educate yourself as to what works and what does not, rather than just throwing money hap-hazzardly (seemingly) at a problem with the hopes of fixing it. Ask questions like: "How/why do I need to check______ " or "What could cause _____, and how do I check it myself to make sure it's right".

That is what this excellent website is for

elias_799

iTrader: (8)

what ? a degree on the retainer ? what's this guy talking about

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

The keepers(locks) surround the valve stem like french bread around oysters, shrimp or a soft shell crap. The outer face of the keepers is tapered. The I.D. of the retainer must be tapered the same way(same angle-number of degrees) so that as the spring pushes against the retainer it locks the keepers in place around the end of the valve stem. To break a retainer is highly unusual. Would a mismatch of the keeper/retainer angle interface cause the retainer to fail? I think it would more likely cause the keepers to become dislodged rather than to result in retainer failure. If you have a degree mismatch you should notice it when you assembly your valve springs. When everything is right it fits together like pieces of a puzzle. If something is mismatched it isn't going to look of fit together properly.

scarey39560

ok talked to my builder today, he thinks i may only have the problem with the spring and retainer possibly?.?. now my question is when all this started my car started running really ruff, like it was missing on a cylinder, and i was having some problems getting her to idle out before because of tune but would idle out after a few sec. with no problem from there now when it started all this i couldnt get it to idle it just shut off, note this was before the retainer gave on me, and it had no throttle response at all my question is with all this in mind if it was just a broken spring would i have these problems? i no i need to take the heads off but i think my builder is gonna work with me to get it running no matter what my problem is but he wants me to put the spring and retainer in to get a compression test before i start breaking her down. is this a good idea? and i just kinda wanted some input on how the motor was acting to determine if it for sure wouldn't just be a spring

thanks brad

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

You can try turning the valve in the guide by hand to see if it binds. You can then put on a good spring and retainer. I'd turn the crank by hand numerous times to see if anything is out of order before I went any further. Remove the plugs first. You can do this stuff yourself. You can do the compression test(Dry/Wet) and if you see problems do a leakdown. It's not going to hurt since the damage has already been done. Just be sure to spin the crank over(SLOWLY) by hand first to check for binding. If you notice something-STOP!

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

I was thinking this would become another "FIX MY CAR OVER TEH INTARWEBZ!!!11!!ONE!!1" thread at some point...

TooLateVTEC

iTrader: (2)

Put the new spring/retainer on it and do a compression test.

If the valve is bent/broken...as soon as you hook the compressed air to the fitting in the spark plug hole you will hear air rushing out somewhere. If you hear that, the **** is not good and the head needs to come off.

Good luck

PREDATOR-Z

You broke a spring and a retainer, YANK THE HEAD.