What's more important?
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Bowling Green, KY
What's more important? What's more important to the consumers here on LS1 Tech, having big power or running good at the track? This is legitamite question I would like to know the answers to. Seems like everyone is leaning for the big dyno number, but that's why i'm posting this poll. Feel free to leave any comments. Me personally I would rather have a faster car than have a dyno queen. I know all the variables but within reason you guys know what I'm talking about. For Example like Bruce Rowe in his 3550 raceweight car that makes 420-430 rwhp I think, could be wrong, he runs 11.15 @125, but I see others making 20-30 more rwhp and the same weight running slower. So which is it power or track times?
My car isn't set up to run at the track and never will be. I go to the track about once a year or so. I drive my car every day 75miles round trip to work and back and when I do run someone it is generally from a 20mph or greater roll. I'd rather have a setup like I'm running now for that than a big *** stall and steep gears that make their great times in the first 60ft. Heck, my brother's LT1 car with a hotcam and homeported heads kills my car in the 1/8 mile ET wise because he has ET steets, 3.73 gears and a 3,600 stall He runs a 1.5x 60ft time and I run a 2.1.. but I come back and get him in the 1/4 , and it isn't even close on the highway from a roll, even if he sprays his 75hp wet kit. So, I guess I care more about dyno numbers and "street" performance.
Good topic
Good topic
Im with Gomer. My car is not set up for the 1/4 mile track, and never will be. So I use a dyno to symbolize progress or problems I might see on a road track. But I dont give a rats a$$ about peak power... what I need is "under the curve" and good midrange torque.
Now... in my little 5.0 notch, dyno #s dont mean a thing. Its completely, and totally set up for the 1320. So far it run a 13.03 and I doubt it has more than 225 at the wheels, even as a 5 speed. I care only about the timeslip.
Different strokes for different er... cars
Now... in my little 5.0 notch, dyno #s dont mean a thing. Its completely, and totally set up for the 1320. So far it run a 13.03 and I doubt it has more than 225 at the wheels, even as a 5 speed. I care only about the timeslip.
Different strokes for different er... cars
it seems most cars setup for the track are lower dynoing cars. like jfm's it dyno'd 395 and went 11.04 at 121 mph weighing 3350. I think the dyno #'s posted are important to show what each particular car makes with its mods. this way you can compare mods to mods. I myself am more impressed with track times then dyno #'s. its easy to make big horsepower but getting it down the track is a whole different story.
In my opinion, dynojet racing is 
. Dynojets are tuning tools, and should only be used to measure before/after comparisions on the SAME vehicle. Comparing dyno graphs across the country, on different dynojets, in different weather, etc... is worthless.
I'd be more interested in seeing before/after dynojet graphs of a single mod, than to have people coming in here to brag about their all-out best dynojet run ever, without a baseline reference to compare with.
ET won't tell you much about rwhp, but trap speeds and a known raceweight will give you a good idea.
Tony
. Dynojets are tuning tools, and should only be used to measure before/after comparisions on the SAME vehicle. Comparing dyno graphs across the country, on different dynojets, in different weather, etc... is worthless.I'd be more interested in seeing before/after dynojet graphs of a single mod, than to have people coming in here to brag about their all-out best dynojet run ever, without a baseline reference to compare with.
ET won't tell you much about rwhp, but trap speeds and a known raceweight will give you a good idea.
Tony
Originally Posted by TEA Brent
Good Point, I see how the LT1 car isn't going to get you on the street. But LS1 vs. LS1 I think it would be a different story. Thanks for the info.
There are two heavily moded LS1 A4 cars that run 11.4x's at the track around here and I have no problems with them on the street.. Oh and here is another example that I know you'll like, I ran Ron Larson (aka Tin Indian) from about 50mph three different times and KILLED him. He had YOUR heads a TR220 cam, FLP's, boltons, and a 2,800 stall. At that time I had the TR220 cam and STOCK heads, a floor jack, two drag radials in the car, and a 250lb passenger. We were on the way back from the track where his car ran a 12.2 and mine ran a 12.5. His track time didn't help him on the street that day. RWHP rules on the street. Last edited by gomer; Nov 20, 2003 at 11:41 AM.
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From: Bowling Green, KY
What I'm saying gomer is that Bruce Rowe's 430 you wouldn't be able to beat. Not a 390 LS1 car, they have to be relatively close. I'm not trying to start a fight or point fingers, so no need to get rude.
Originally Posted by gomer
So you are saying that a 39xrwhp LS1 car that is set up for the track can outrun my 450rwhp LS1 car that is set up for the street... on the street? I'm sorry, but that won't happen and it hasn't ever happened. There are two heavily moded LS1 A4 cars that run 11.4x's at the track around here and I have no problems with them on the street.. Oh and here is another example that I know you'll like, I ran Ron Larson (aka Tin Indian) from about 50mph three different times and KILLED him. He had YOUR heads a TR220 cam, FLP's, boltons, and a 2,800 stall. At that time I had the TR220 cam and STOCK heads, a floor jack, two drag radials in the car, and a 250lb passenger. We were on the way back from the track where his car ran a 12.2 and mine ran a 12.5. His track time didn't help him on the street that day. RWHP rules on the street.
There are two heavily moded LS1 A4 cars that run 11.4x's at the track around here and I have no problems with them on the street.. Oh and here is another example that I know you'll like, I ran Ron Larson (aka Tin Indian) from about 50mph three different times and KILLED him. He had YOUR heads a TR220 cam, FLP's, boltons, and a 2,800 stall. At that time I had the TR220 cam and STOCK heads, a floor jack, two drag radials in the car, and a 250lb passenger. We were on the way back from the track where his car ran a 12.2 and mine ran a 12.5. His track time didn't help him on the street that day. RWHP rules on the street. LS1 Tech Stories
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Bowling Green, KY
I agree completely with you on this one. Dyno's don't mean squat only a tuning tool.
Originally Posted by Nine Ball
In my opinion, dynojet racing is . Dynojets are tuning tools, and should only be used to measure before/after comparisions on the SAME vehicle. Comparing dyno graphs across the country, on different dynojets, in different weather, etc... is worthless.
I'd be more interested in seeing before/after dynojet graphs of a single mod, than to have people coming in here to brag about their all-out best dynojet run ever, without a baseline reference to compare with.
ET won't tell you much about rwhp, but trap speeds and a known raceweight will give you a good idea.
Tony
. Dynojets are tuning tools, and should only be used to measure before/after comparisions on the SAME vehicle. Comparing dyno graphs across the country, on different dynojets, in different weather, etc... is worthless.I'd be more interested in seeing before/after dynojet graphs of a single mod, than to have people coming in here to brag about their all-out best dynojet run ever, without a baseline reference to compare with.
ET won't tell you much about rwhp, but trap speeds and a known raceweight will give you a good idea.
Tony
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Waldorf, Maryland
Dynos are for tuning - plain and simple. I am interested in how the power is made available in REAL WORLD/REAL DRIVING situations. Power under the curve gives a decent portrayal of that - MPH in the 1/4 mile also gives a solid view of the actual power the car is making (yes - I understand things such as weight come into play).
Gomer - for your quick reply about killing some other car on the street. Compare who you were racing. You said two of them were A4's correct. You cant compare your ET's with theirs many of the times. When I was running 12.6's - I could smack around A4's on the street that could nudge into the 11's. Too many variables. So the simple answer of HP to HP doesnt always apply.
Gomer - for your quick reply about killing some other car on the street. Compare who you were racing. You said two of them were A4's correct. You cant compare your ET's with theirs many of the times. When I was running 12.6's - I could smack around A4's on the street that could nudge into the 11's. Too many variables. So the simple answer of HP to HP doesnt always apply.
Last edited by Hannibal; Nov 20, 2003 at 01:41 PM.
I made a post about this a few weeks ago Brent. My car only dynoed 400 even on the Dyno jet ( www.cofba.org/users/reckless/dyno2.jpg ), but I went 11.04 @ 122 at the Thunder race.
Having said that, my car is kind of "anti-dyno" with slicks, TH400, 12-bolt, steel shaft, etc.
I have seen Mike Brown's car on the syno a few times and it only got to 600rwhp, but he has ran 9.85 @ 138 with 3550 race weight.
Having said that, my car is kind of "anti-dyno" with slicks, TH400, 12-bolt, steel shaft, etc.
I have seen Mike Brown's car on the syno a few times and it only got to 600rwhp, but he has ran 9.85 @ 138 with 3550 race weight.
I agree that at the track , a car with a big stall kicks my *** when on slicks. but on the street my car leaves great from start to finish. my main concern is just having fun with my car at the track , street ,carshows and all around. I will not set my car up for drag only but i do go to the track alot. I just run in street trim with Nittos and I think for what I have , the car is moving .
I see alot of dyno queens on the board but I like seeing my street car with a measly 400 hp at 3726lbs out run some of the high hp cars just because the driver cant get it out the hole. Mph is hard to overcome unless you can kick *** 0ut the hole and on the Tree. One day I would like to put skinnies on the front ,slicks on the rear and take out the unneaded seats and go all out. Then Even with a say 11.40, I like mine at full weight running 11.6's and 11.7's. JMO
I see alot of dyno queens on the board but I like seeing my street car with a measly 400 hp at 3726lbs out run some of the high hp cars just because the driver cant get it out the hole. Mph is hard to overcome unless you can kick *** 0ut the hole and on the Tree. One day I would like to put skinnies on the front ,slicks on the rear and take out the unneaded seats and go all out. Then Even with a say 11.40, I like mine at full weight running 11.6's and 11.7's. JMO
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From: Bowling Green, KY
Our car made 606 and went 9.87
Originally Posted by Reckless
I have seen Mike Brown's car on the syno a few times and it only got to 600rwhp, but he has ran 9.85 @ 138 with 3550 race weight.
not a fan of dyno numbers at all since all dynos read differently but i will say this
i used to be interested in MPH much more than et. this is because i live 180-200 miles from the nearest track and 90% of my races and fun driving is from a roll.
this has slowly changed to be about caring equal for ET and MPH since i have started making that 200 mile drive alittle more often
as of now i dont go 100% for ET for a couple reasons. one most my races still arent from a stop. and two my car is my only car, daily driver, and it has a 100% stock rear. i cant afford to go all out and try to nail a killer 60' and blow the rear out of the car (broke college kid who does telemarketing for money)
as some more cash comes in and i get a rear, my plan for the car (as of now at least) is to have a killer street car that turns great ET's (goal is 10.99 346 ci NA), but not an all out drag car by anymeans (no auto, no stall)
so basically i used to be more in favor of power over ET, but now they are about equal where i am willing to sacrifice some ET to save my car from breaking, yet still run a great MPH to know what the car actually has in it
i used to be interested in MPH much more than et. this is because i live 180-200 miles from the nearest track and 90% of my races and fun driving is from a roll.
this has slowly changed to be about caring equal for ET and MPH since i have started making that 200 mile drive alittle more often
as of now i dont go 100% for ET for a couple reasons. one most my races still arent from a stop. and two my car is my only car, daily driver, and it has a 100% stock rear. i cant afford to go all out and try to nail a killer 60' and blow the rear out of the car (broke college kid who does telemarketing for money)
as some more cash comes in and i get a rear, my plan for the car (as of now at least) is to have a killer street car that turns great ET's (goal is 10.99 346 ci NA), but not an all out drag car by anymeans (no auto, no stall)
so basically i used to be more in favor of power over ET, but now they are about equal where i am willing to sacrifice some ET to save my car from breaking, yet still run a great MPH to know what the car actually has in it
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From: Troy, AL
I am interested in dyno numbers as a track tuning tool. NOT for comparison with other dynos.
What numbers am I mainly interested in? Well, it's certainly not the peak. I'm interested in the numbers where I spend most of the track on a given combination. For instance, with my current setup on this '02 I have a 4000 stall and 3.23 gears. I spend most of my time on the track in second gear (I don't see alot all of 3rd due to the 3.23 gears) between 5350 (this is where 2nd gear starts) and 6750 RPM (my shift point.) This entire 1400 RPM area is what's important to me. If the car makes great power there (and it does, IMO) then it's going to be quick.
What numbers am I mainly interested in? Well, it's certainly not the peak. I'm interested in the numbers where I spend most of the track on a given combination. For instance, with my current setup on this '02 I have a 4000 stall and 3.23 gears. I spend most of my time on the track in second gear (I don't see alot all of 3rd due to the 3.23 gears) between 5350 (this is where 2nd gear starts) and 6750 RPM (my shift point.) This entire 1400 RPM area is what's important to me. If the car makes great power there (and it does, IMO) then it's going to be quick.
Raughammer's car went 10.6 with 401 rwhp
Colonels car went 9.85 with 520 rwhp
I've seen a few lightweight LX Mustangs run 10.2s with 300 rwhp.
Dynos don't mean crap. If you want to compare dyno runs between cars, make sure that both cars run on the same dynojet on the same day, back to back. THATs the only way to compare two different cars on a Dynojet.
Colonels car went 9.85 with 520 rwhp
I've seen a few lightweight LX Mustangs run 10.2s with 300 rwhp.
Dynos don't mean crap. If you want to compare dyno runs between cars, make sure that both cars run on the same dynojet on the same day, back to back. THATs the only way to compare two different cars on a Dynojet.
Originally Posted by Colonel
I am interested in dyno numbers as a track tuning tool. NOT for comparison with other dynos.
What numbers am I mainly interested in? Well, it's certainly not the peak. I'm interested in the numbers where I spend most of the track on a given combination. For instance, with my current setup on this '02 I have a 4000 stall and 3.23 gears. I spend most of my time on the track in second gear (I don't see alot all of 3rd due to the 3.23 gears) between 5350 (this is where 2nd gear starts) and 6750 RPM (my shift point.) This entire 1400 RPM area is what's important to me. If the car makes great power there (and it does, IMO) then it's going to be quick.
What numbers am I mainly interested in? Well, it's certainly not the peak. I'm interested in the numbers where I spend most of the track on a given combination. For instance, with my current setup on this '02 I have a 4000 stall and 3.23 gears. I spend most of my time on the track in second gear (I don't see alot all of 3rd due to the 3.23 gears) between 5350 (this is where 2nd gear starts) and 6750 RPM (my shift point.) This entire 1400 RPM area is what's important to me. If the car makes great power there (and it does, IMO) then it's going to be quick.
i agree, usuable power is very important to me, not peak
For me - I like them both. I had my car setup for racing (9'', 4.30 gears, etc.) and it took down many cars on the street - but only up to a point. I think one thing people are missing here is that the cars set up for racing are going to have some hefty gears (4.10+ for 6 speed cars), so on street tires you run out of gear at a relatively low speed compared to someone with say a stock 10 bolt with 3.42s. There are a number of friends of mine in the area at different stages of mods - fully stock, cam only with all bolt ons, heads/cam with all bolt ons (all 3 of these are street cars - 10 bolt, lowered, etc) and the heads/cam and cam cars would run with me on the highway all day long. I was making 30-40 more rwhp than the cam only car, but with its gearing it would hang at my door (I had an extra shift in most occasions while they were just rolling through 2nd and 3rd). Now my car is setup for street driving - but will make it to the track again in the spring after I get my new TEA heads. The only thing dynos are good for as far as comparision is seeing where you stand next to someone on the same day. My old setup (with a 10 bolt) got hammered by my friend's TEA/F1 cam setup through a 9'' on the same day - 5 minutes apart. Now if we had dynoed on different days, or in different states, etc. I would not find any usefull info in his dyno vs. mine.
Hmm - that was kind of long, and I appologize if it doesn't really make any sense.
Hmm - that was kind of long, and I appologize if it doesn't really make any sense.
I think the dyno numbers are close to worthless. They are for tuning only. If I'm forking out my cash I want the car to RUN! For my money it needs to impress me. I'm the driver so I want to see it perform. Dyno sheets are only cool for having pissing contests on ls1tech and other sites.
I dont care for the track numbers because like peple say with dynos, there are MANY factors on the track.... way more than a dyno. For example on a track, you have tires, suspension, weight, driver, track prep, weather, tire temp, etc to affect the track times (ET or MPH) On a dyno, you just have air and temp mainly. It measures what the motor can do, not what the car as a whole can do. Im like many others here. I have a street car. It will never be setup for the track as I wont have a cage put in so someone set up for the track will beat me on the track with less HP, but lets do a top speed run or race a little over a 1/4. The car setup to run the track may jusy lose because they are only setup to go 1320 ft. You track info is all decided within the first 60' also.
On the dyno, Im not mainly concerned with peak numbers (but yes, it does matter), but with area under the curve.
On the dyno, Im not mainly concerned with peak numbers (but yes, it does matter), but with area under the curve.