228 Duration Camshafts On The Engine Dyno
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Texas
BTW, to back that up, you can narrow up the LSA and run a smaller lobe and fatten up the midrange and make a nice cam that makes good power and has a helthy chop to it. If someone is willing to tune a 346 with a cam some of the big cams out there, then tuning a small cam with a narrow LSA should not be any more of an issue.
Tuning has come a long way in the last few years. I think the LSA stuff is a matter of education. People spread the LSA because they are chasing a peak power number and they have too much lobe to start with.
I think Hot Rod or Car craft just did a test on an SBC where they did a simple change from a 224/224 114 to 110 or 108. Gained a lot of midrange, lost a little peak, but lost a lot of engine vaccum. The car went from 12" to about 6.5"
Tuning has come a long way in the last few years. I think the LSA stuff is a matter of education. People spread the LSA because they are chasing a peak power number and they have too much lobe to start with.
I think Hot Rod or Car craft just did a test on an SBC where they did a simple change from a 224/224 114 to 110 or 108. Gained a lot of midrange, lost a little peak, but lost a lot of engine vaccum. The car went from 12" to about 6.5"
Well then it is time for education I guess. A 228 cam with 9* overlap will run much smoother than a 237 cam with 13* overlap. Problem is you might find out that in a cam only situation that the 228 could make better overall power and subject the bigger cam to a marketing crisis.
So what, call it evolution.
If a tuner would tell me that he would not tune a 9* overlap cam just because he is seing 107>109 LSA in the cam specs, I would pack my stuff in a hurry and leave. That would be the only indication I would need to prove to me he is a bad tuner and that I better spend my money with a "real" professional.
So what, call it evolution.
If a tuner would tell me that he would not tune a 9* overlap cam just because he is seing 107>109 LSA in the cam specs, I would pack my stuff in a hurry and leave. That would be the only indication I would need to prove to me he is a bad tuner and that I better spend my money with a "real" professional.
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i would like to see a comparison between this and the torquer v 3. I would like to see the difference in the bottom end by going with a bigger cam that supposed to keep torque versus a conservative cam.
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From: Texas!
Thanks for the support guys. I have tested our new 224 lobe with probably 4-5 different exhaust lobes & while it doesn't make huge changes, there's a couple here & there. We've also tried some lobe seperations down to 110, but nothing bellow that. I dont doubt a little tighter might help bring power in earlier, but the typical customer doesn't want a camshaft on a tight tight lobe seperation.
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Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
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From: Western Burbs of Detroit
Very good source of info guys. I'd hate to see how much $$ you guys have wrapped up in testing so far, but I am sure its quite a lot. Good job, can't wait for the larger cams.
Operating on a theory, do you think the margin is going to grow as the cams get larger in duration ? For example we saw a 3 rwhp and 5 rwtq gain on the 228, can we speculate that a 236 might see 7 rwhp 9 rwtq ? Just guessing here.....Thanks again for all the data to look at.
Operating on a theory, do you think the margin is going to grow as the cams get larger in duration ? For example we saw a 3 rwhp and 5 rwtq gain on the 228, can we speculate that a 236 might see 7 rwhp 9 rwtq ? Just guessing here.....Thanks again for all the data to look at.
On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: KCMO
Like I have said b4, thank you TSP! You provide very good information and comparisons for the LS1 community. I am undecided on a cam right now and I have found your posts to be very informative for cam size, lsa, cam advance and how they effect the powerband and overall hp. The info from your post and dyno test will for sure lead me in picking out a cam. I don't see how your test hurt anyone and why there is any reason for the rude posts.
I am actually leaning towards a different cam as of this time (el torro), but if I found a cam of similar size and powerband that makes more power, even if it be 3hp, I will get that one.
I am actually leaning towards a different cam as of this time (el torro), but if I found a cam of similar size and powerband that makes more power, even if it be 3hp, I will get that one.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Sunny London, UK
Yep, I found this post very interesting. Especially the comparison of all the 2xx cams.
Id love to see a comparison of 224 cams with different lsa's all other things being equal and the same with the exhaust duration increasing. Say 224/224 224/228 and 224/232 for example.
Id love to see a comparison of 224 cams with different lsa's all other things being equal and the same with the exhaust duration increasing. Say 224/224 224/228 and 224/232 for example.
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Jason just to refresh my memory what heads are used in these test?
Maybe in the future when you start doing head swaps on the engine dyno - you bring this thread back with the small and larger lift 224 or 228 cams and see how they take advantage of the better flowing heads?
Maybe in the future when you start doing head swaps on the engine dyno - you bring this thread back with the small and larger lift 224 or 228 cams and see how they take advantage of the better flowing heads?
actually i was wondering about the heads too, i cant quite remember what you guys are using?
i think it would be cool to see if you guys can come up with a very strong cam meant for a cam only motor.ive seen alot of people choose big cams and come up disappointed when they only make 400-ish cam only. my friend is one of those, has a 235/239 on a 112 and he came up with 396rwhp (forget the torque, think it was decent, but not great). then, on the other side of the coin, there are a lot of guys making 400-ish on smaller cams, high 220's, low 230's. it just makes me think that there would be a very good market for people going cam only if you guys ground a stout cam only cam. there seems to be a good amount of people going cam only, or stock 243's and such, so it might be worth a shot.
i think it would be cool to see if you guys can come up with a very strong cam meant for a cam only motor.ive seen alot of people choose big cams and come up disappointed when they only make 400-ish cam only. my friend is one of those, has a 235/239 on a 112 and he came up with 396rwhp (forget the torque, think it was decent, but not great). then, on the other side of the coin, there are a lot of guys making 400-ish on smaller cams, high 220's, low 230's. it just makes me think that there would be a very good market for people going cam only if you guys ground a stout cam only cam. there seems to be a good amount of people going cam only, or stock 243's and such, so it might be worth a shot.
If you're referring to the 233/239 in your sig, we'll be testing it as well 
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Feeding off of Damian's idea...in the future when you guys get around the 240's cam, Yall can use my vehicle for a test mule for the FTI cams. FTI toxic series cam here.
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If I decide to change up set ups, I vary will might. I bought the cam with the mentality that when I race, I RACE. I drop gears to put me at 5k when I let it go WOT, shifting at 6500-7k rpms (depends on mood, surface conditions, ect), and wasn't worried about driving around. But now, I really want to experiment with a reverse split low end cam for better DD use with no surge or clutch abuse, and for gas mileage. Though if I do pull the cam, I can send it out. Time will tell though.
