Just did 224/224 110 cam, driveability issues?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 63
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Just did 224/224 110 cam, driveability issues? After the cam I've picked up a hesitation/surge between 1-2k rpms under light acceleration. It's really annoying. There is no way to drive the car smoothly through this rpm range. Had it tuned, and tuner says he has no idea what it is or how to fix it. Do you think this cam is the problem? Is the 110 lsa to choppy? I relied on someone else to pick the cam based on info I gave them about how I use the car. Also, was not impressed with the numbers, although they were different dynos, I still think it should have been better. 333rwhp before, 353 after cam, and Ls6 intake, + injectors. Opinions?
After the cam I've picked up a hesitation/surge between 1-2k rpms under light acceleration. It's really annoying. There is no way to drive the car smoothly through this rpm range. Had it tuned, and tuner says he has no idea what it is or how to fix it. Do you think this cam is the problem? Is the 110 lsa to choppy? I relied on someone else to pick the cam based on info I gave them about how I use the car. Also, was not impressed with the numbers, although they were different dynos, I still think it should have been better. 333rwhp before, 353 after cam, and Ls6 intake, + injectors. Opinions?
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From: Southaven, MS (near Memphis, TN)
After the cam I've picked up a hesitation/surge between 1-2k rpms under light acceleration. It's really annoying. There is no way to drive the car smoothly through this rpm range. Had it tuned, and tuner says he has no idea what it is or how to fix it. Do you think this cam is the problem? Is the 110 lsa to choppy? I relied on someone else to pick the cam based on info I gave them about how I use the car. Also, was not impressed with the numbers, although they were different dynos, I still think it should have been better. 333rwhp before, 353 after cam, and Ls6 intake, + injectors. Opinions?
haha^^^ Umm... I agree with vsocks...if the tuner actually admits he has no idea WTF he is doing...it might be time to move on...
Last edited by jetlag; Aug 7, 2009 at 06:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2008
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No, not that he has no idea what he's doing, just no idea what is causing the problem. The question was meant to hopefully find someone with experience with this exact cam, to know if this is a characteristic, and if there is a solution beyond the normal tuning parameters. I didn't mention the name of the shop because I didn't want anyone to get the wrong impression of them, but they are a large and well known shop in Florida.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Lexington, KY
The more overlap you have, the more prone to surging it will be. The 110 lsa will have more issues than the 114 by comparison. But it can be tuned out unless there is a mechanical problem causing it. I spent a long time tuning it out of mine.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2008
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The engine is in a Miata, it has pacesetter (I believe) block bugger headers, and 2.5" duals, all mandrel bent, T-56, and cam lift (forgive my ignorance) is it lobe lift your looking for? If so it's .3420 on intake and exhaust. The other lift on the sheet is gross valve lift which is .581 in/ex.
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Surging + 2 on what DaveX said... That 110 LSA should be at least 112 or 114 for better drive ability !
Believe me, I have a 231/237 115 LSA in my 01 / 402 and the tuner I paid over $ 500 did not help the cam bucking 1 cent !
So now I have HP Tuners so I can tinker with it myself, and it is better !
Believe me, I have a 231/237 115 LSA in my 01 / 402 and the tuner I paid over $ 500 did not help the cam bucking 1 cent !
So now I have HP Tuners so I can tinker with it myself, and it is better !
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
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From: BFE
+ 2 on what DaveX said... That 110 LSA should be at least 112 or 114 for better drive ability !
Believe me, I have a 231/237 115 LSA in my 01 / 402 and the tuner I paid over $ 500 did not help the cam bucking 1 cent !
So now I have HP Tuners so I can tinker with it myself, and it is better !
Believe me, I have a 231/237 115 LSA in my 01 / 402 and the tuner I paid over $ 500 did not help the cam bucking 1 cent !
So now I have HP Tuners so I can tinker with it myself, and it is better !
Your tuner should find a new line of work.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 907
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From: NJ
I agree^^ Why did you go with a 110 LSA? 114 is what you should have gotten for great driveability. A good tuner can still only go so far, that cam is gonna surge no matter what. The MAF is like WTF do I do at low RPM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2008
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Ignorance, and listening to the wrong person led me to the decision. The car is primarily used as a roadrace car, and rarely driven on the street, so the issue is more of a nuisance than anything. I'm just glad that someone actually thinks a majority of it can be tuned out. I'm heading back to the dyno tomorrow, hopefully he can get it better than it is now.
My tuner had no problem getting it to smooth out, a little choppy at idle but that's it
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Lexington, KY
It can be tuned out for sure. It just takes someone that knows what they are doing or buy the software and learn it yourself. You would probably be happy with it if you had the tune issues worked out.
Last edited by fxgs; Aug 8, 2009 at 01:15 AM.
Why do people almost universally associate tighter LSA's with "too much overlap"?
228/228 112 = 4* overlap
228/232 112 = 6* overlap
232/234 112 = 9* overlap
234/242 114 = 10* overlap
These small to mid-range cams all have similar or larger amounts of overlap, yet plenty of people have had great results without the bucking/surging. For the application, you have a great starting point. That cam should make power everywhere.
def find a new tuner, my buddy has almost the same cam as you in is 99 SS, and has 0 surge or bucking. it only took the tuner maybe an hour with the car to get it where it needed to be, a tuner should never have no idea what the problem is with a car or he should not be working on it. he should have in mind what the problem is, unless he is greatly lacking in experience.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2008
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Got it, thanks guys. To his defense, the weekend he was working on my car, he was in the middle of moving into a much larger, nicer facility, and was severely lacking in sleep, and very preoccupied. He had just spent the entire week epoxying his 3000sq ft floor, only to have the finish completely wrinkle and blotch everywhere, so he had to sand/strip it all over again, and fight with the supply company to atleast give him more product. Since I already paid for the tune, I am going to bring it back to him today, and see how he does with a clear head, Sleep, and brand new dyno/facility. If the problem still exists, it will be off to another shop next week. You guys have been great, again thanks a lot!
