Cam for most power under the curve?
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Cam for most power under the curve? I was wondering for my setup, see sig (counting the 243 cylinder heads), what the best cam would be for:
-6200rpm redline (trying to not grenade my 4l60e, rod bolts)
-Daily driver (staying under 230 duration and .600 lift and over 113lsa)
-valvetrain friendly (want reliability)
I was thinking custom 226/228 .573/.578 114 just to know what I should have gone with instead of my Tr224? My friend will also be doing a cam and I am going to tell him the same suggestion as a result of this thread so he doesn't go slightly too small like I did. Thanks.
-6200rpm redline (trying to not grenade my 4l60e, rod bolts)
-Daily driver (staying under 230 duration and .600 lift and over 113lsa)
-valvetrain friendly (want reliability)
I was thinking custom 226/228 .573/.578 114 just to know what I should have gone with instead of my Tr224? My friend will also be doing a cam and I am going to tell him the same suggestion as a result of this thread so he doesn't go slightly too small like I did. Thanks.
Last edited by camz28arro; Sep 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM.
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Thanks, Wouldn't a 111 LSA be too rough of an 700-750rpm idle for a DD though? Right now my Tr224 has bad drivability on the stock converter, stalls if put into R or D before waiting 30 seconds. Bucks when downshifting to 1st, ect But my idle is only about 650-675 rpm in gear, with my ss3200 I'll raise it to 700-725.
Would the above cam with a ss3200 be much better than my Tr224/stock TC
Would the above cam with a ss3200 be much better than my Tr224/stock TC
Last edited by camz28arro; Sep 18, 2009 at 05:22 AM.
I would suggest the TSP 228R...that's the cam I've been looking at getting for my daily driver. 228/228 .588/.588 on a 112 LSA. I've heard it has great driveability and good power under the curve from dyno charts. Search it on youtube and you'll find a few GTO's that sound pretty ******* badass with that cam. Lumpy idle but doesn't sound like it's going to die.
Here is my daily driver setup with heavy zr1 wheels, ls7 clutch and no underdrive pulley. Unported 243 heads and a custom 224 cam, no loss of power at all was my goal. My heads were milled to 62cc's to give me 11:1 comrpession. I can cruise at 1000 rpm in 6th gear with no issues. Has great torque everywhere. I baselined my car before the heads and cam so I could see my gains. Also this setup was not dyno tuned for max power. I tuned the car on the street and went to the dyno for 3 pulls.
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What is your definition of 'driver friendly'?
Do you like the 224/224 114 you have now? You could just stay with that. Just notching up a few degrees on duration/exhaust will not bring that much more power, and will be less 'driver friendly'.
If your real intent is more power but still 'driver friendly', and to meet your requirement for a 6200 power peak, you are going to have to add some overlap. The only way to do that (and keep that 6200 Rpm peak) is to manipulate the LSA and advance.
Nothing 'wrong' with your choice but it is not that different from your 224.
Food for thought.
Good luck.
..WeathermanShawn..
Do you like the 224/224 114 you have now? You could just stay with that. Just notching up a few degrees on duration/exhaust will not bring that much more power, and will be less 'driver friendly'.
If your real intent is more power but still 'driver friendly', and to meet your requirement for a 6200 power peak, you are going to have to add some overlap. The only way to do that (and keep that 6200 Rpm peak) is to manipulate the LSA and advance.
Nothing 'wrong' with your choice but it is not that different from your 224.
Food for thought.
Good luck.
..WeathermanShawn..
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Nitroused383, Nice numbers, thats so close to what my setup will be. With my cometics and the 243's, my compression will also be 10.96:1. I'm shooting for a locked 410/390. Hopefully with my underdrive, light wheels, and tune could get my auto within the 8hp of your 6 spd.
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228/230 .588 .591 112, I might tell my friend to do that cam but maybe with a 113 or 114 LSA. How is the idle with the 112 and what rpm do you have it set at? Thanks.
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Camz:
I admire your goals, especially since you are going to bump up in compression. So if it for another vehicle, forgive me.
I will just stick with your lead-in title [ Best power under the curve for my setup. 6200 Rpm Redline.]
All those cams are great but their redline is above 6200 Rpm's. You are going to have to shoot for an IVC of 40-42 to do that. You are looking at LSA like it determines idle. It is not. It is overlap.
To do 6200, you need to custom it out.
..WeathermanShawn..
I admire your goals, especially since you are going to bump up in compression. So if it for another vehicle, forgive me.
I will just stick with your lead-in title [ Best power under the curve for my setup. 6200 Rpm Redline.]
All those cams are great but their redline is above 6200 Rpm's. You are going to have to shoot for an IVC of 40-42 to do that. You are looking at LSA like it determines idle. It is not. It is overlap.
To do 6200, you need to custom it out.
..WeathermanShawn..
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Camz:
I admire your goals, especially since you are going to bump up in compression. So if it for another vehicle, forgive me.
I will just stick with your lead-in title [ Best power under the curve for my setup. 6200 Rpm Redline.]
All those cams are great but their redline is above 6200 Rpm's. You are going to have to shoot for an IVC of 40-42 to do that. You are looking at LSA like it determines idle. It is not. It is overlap.
To do 6200, you need to custom it out.
..WeathermanShawn..
I admire your goals, especially since you are going to bump up in compression. So if it for another vehicle, forgive me.
I will just stick with your lead-in title [ Best power under the curve for my setup. 6200 Rpm Redline.]
All those cams are great but their redline is above 6200 Rpm's. You are going to have to shoot for an IVC of 40-42 to do that. You are looking at LSA like it determines idle. It is not. It is overlap.
To do 6200, you need to custom it out.
..WeathermanShawn..
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Well, you can make all the cam 'science' easy or you can make it hard.
If you are looking for perfection you could probably manipulate the duration/exhaust and LSA a few degrees and surpass the 224 cam's performance.
If at minimum you are trying to find the elusive cam/head 'sweet-spot', then the 224-228 duration range seems to work 75% of the time. The 114 LSA on the 224 cam peaks you at about 6200 Rpm's. When you go up in duration, you push that peak power higher and higher (Rpm's). The only way to go bigger on duration and keep that 6200 power peak is to lower the LSA.
But while that can potentially increase power under the curve, as you stated you may not want the tuning hassles of a cam with more overlap.
Actually, the cam you picked seems pretty decent. Close to the 224, might work good with those heads. I would do it on a +4 advance.
I am sure you could P.M. Predator-Z again on his cam choice. It would work, but maybe he can 'juice' one up for you with an overlap range of 2-4 degrees.
Good luck. Sounds like you are doing your homework. I am still amazed to this day how successful that 224 cam has been!
..WeathermanShawn..
If you are looking for perfection you could probably manipulate the duration/exhaust and LSA a few degrees and surpass the 224 cam's performance.
If at minimum you are trying to find the elusive cam/head 'sweet-spot', then the 224-228 duration range seems to work 75% of the time. The 114 LSA on the 224 cam peaks you at about 6200 Rpm's. When you go up in duration, you push that peak power higher and higher (Rpm's). The only way to go bigger on duration and keep that 6200 power peak is to lower the LSA.
But while that can potentially increase power under the curve, as you stated you may not want the tuning hassles of a cam with more overlap.
Actually, the cam you picked seems pretty decent. Close to the 224, might work good with those heads. I would do it on a +4 advance.
I am sure you could P.M. Predator-Z again on his cam choice. It would work, but maybe he can 'juice' one up for you with an overlap range of 2-4 degrees.
Good luck. Sounds like you are doing your homework. I am still amazed to this day how successful that 224 cam has been!
..WeathermanShawn..
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That sucks 4 me
Is it possible to have a cam that matches the goals and performance of the Pred Z 228/232 recommendation and still pass a true sniffer. If so what type of specs.
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On another thread about 'why do they market small cams anymore', (thread has been going for years), they has been a discussion about a 218/224 113+1 LSA cam that might be up your alley.
Mr. Predator-Z helped spec my cam. As far as I know he still gives advice for free. You might 'shout-out' to him, or P.M. him.
Otherwise, that thread has some great insight. A lot of 'old-school' type education, but people were running 11's on just small cams. Gets you thinking..
Hope that helps.
..WeathermanShawn..
Mr. Predator-Z helped spec my cam. As far as I know he still gives advice for free. You might 'shout-out' to him, or P.M. him.
Otherwise, that thread has some great insight. A lot of 'old-school' type education, but people were running 11's on just small cams. Gets you thinking..
Hope that helps.
..WeathermanShawn..