what is the advantage or disadvantage to a reverse split cam?
12-05-2003, 07:44 PM
#21
Reverse splits make nice HP #'s, but GENERALLY do not make good TQ. Every reverse split car I have seen locally wasn't fast unless it was geared up. They need gear...
Most local shops, and myself included prefer standard split duration cams for N/A and Nitrous use. There is no arguing they make more TQ on nitrous, and they GENERALLY make more TQ across the board. As I have said before, look at the fastest cars on the board. Most if not all are running standard splits...
josh
Most local shops, and myself included prefer standard split duration cams for N/A and Nitrous use. There is no arguing they make more TQ on nitrous, and they GENERALLY make more TQ across the board. As I have said before, look at the fastest cars on the board. Most if not all are running standard splits...
josh
12-05-2003, 08:35 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by MTI 427 C5 Roadster
CRACKER/ANYONE ELSE:
I am leaning towards a standard split TSP 231/237, .598 lift and 112 lsa but want to explore all possibilities b/f making my decision such as would the MMT 2 cam be better for me. I really want something a tad milder than the g5x2 as that is know to eat srpings, etc.
I am leaning towards a standard split TSP 231/237, .598 lift and 112 lsa but want to explore all possibilities b/f making my decision such as would the MMT 2 cam be better for me. I really want something a tad milder than the g5x2 as that is know to eat srpings, etc.
It sucks if you wanna make good power you gotta pay...
12-05-2003, 10:56 PM
#23
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Sorry about you throwing a rod. WHat was the cause of this and were you racing, etc when it happened.
I hate hearing about this type of heartache!
Best of luck on your future build up!
I hate hearing about this type of heartache!
Best of luck on your future build up!
12-05-2003, 11:00 PM
#24
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WRENCHER:
I don't mind paying for the best dual valve springs that money can buy and this is what i expect to do, but i just can't stomach any broken valve springs within 15 to 20K miles on normal aggressive street/higway ussage on the best springs, and just want the confidence that the best springs won't break prematurely. However, i know there are no guarantees with this type of performance **** unfortunately and its a risk we run to make extract BIG POWER out of these motors!
I don't mind paying for the best dual valve springs that money can buy and this is what i expect to do, but i just can't stomach any broken valve springs within 15 to 20K miles on normal aggressive street/higway ussage on the best springs, and just want the confidence that the best springs won't break prematurely. However, i know there are no guarantees with this type of performance **** unfortunately and its a risk we run to make extract BIG POWER out of these motors!
12-05-2003, 11:20 PM
#25
IMO, you do not need these big lift #'s to make power. The .580 lift range is PLENTY of lift, as long as you're running a good combo of duration and LSA. Any non-internet motor builder will tell you that. Even some of the biggest powerhouse LT1's are only running .560ish lift, but lots of duration and good LSA patterns which is generally where most of your POWER comes from.
Due to the extensive amount of detonation problems I was having with my 230/230 110 camshaft, I did a LOT R&D into LS1 valvetrains, cam choices, duration, LCA, ICL, and lift figures. These cams running .610 lift is down right insane considering we STILL don't have an LS1 spring that's trustworthy. I think it would be smarter to formulate your own cam for the COMBO, have it custom cut, and keep the lift at a conservative .580-.585ish. Again, you DO NOT need crazy lift to make power. Duration of intake/exhaust valve openings, ICL figures on how early the intake valve will open and close, overall duration, these figures are what need the most attention in formulating the combo to make great power when and where you want it.
I could go on, and if anybody has questions i'll be happy to answer. But I can say this, I did almost 1 full yr of experimenting, and R&D and I have learned a LOT. I now know that it's the entire stick that makes the difference...Not just some fancy big name cam with tons of lift. My cam doesn't have a lot of lift, not near as much as some of the other more popular cams. My #'s are in the sig with 5.3L heads(NON ls6). My cam is double spring safe, very driveable, and makes GREAT power throughout the entire rpm range because I formulated the COMBO that way..
Another good example is Thunder Racing. Most of their cams do not excede .580-.590 lift and make great power.
Something to think about before just picking whatever looks the most attractive on paper (or your computer screen)
josh
Due to the extensive amount of detonation problems I was having with my 230/230 110 camshaft, I did a LOT R&D into LS1 valvetrains, cam choices, duration, LCA, ICL, and lift figures. These cams running .610 lift is down right insane considering we STILL don't have an LS1 spring that's trustworthy. I think it would be smarter to formulate your own cam for the COMBO, have it custom cut, and keep the lift at a conservative .580-.585ish. Again, you DO NOT need crazy lift to make power. Duration of intake/exhaust valve openings, ICL figures on how early the intake valve will open and close, overall duration, these figures are what need the most attention in formulating the combo to make great power when and where you want it.
I could go on, and if anybody has questions i'll be happy to answer. But I can say this, I did almost 1 full yr of experimenting, and R&D and I have learned a LOT. I now know that it's the entire stick that makes the difference...Not just some fancy big name cam with tons of lift. My cam doesn't have a lot of lift, not near as much as some of the other more popular cams. My #'s are in the sig with 5.3L heads(NON ls6). My cam is double spring safe, very driveable, and makes GREAT power throughout the entire rpm range because I formulated the COMBO that way..
Another good example is Thunder Racing. Most of their cams do not excede .580-.590 lift and make great power.
Something to think about before just picking whatever looks the most attractive on paper (or your computer screen)
josh
12-05-2003, 11:25 PM
#26
Originally Posted by MTI 427 C5 Roadster
Sorry about you throwing a rod. WHat was the cause of this and were you racing, etc when it happened.
I hate hearing about this type of heartache!
Best of luck on your future build up!
I hate hearing about this type of heartache!
Best of luck on your future build up!
. However I apparently stressed a rod when I over-revved it(missed a 3 to 4 shift) and was cruising on the interstate at 65 and it just popped!. I expected it so much that I was coming from picking up a crank to put in the bottom end the next weekend....doh! Too little too late. ...and now...back to cams 
12-05-2003, 11:27 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Damian
IMO, you do not need these big lift #'s to make power. The .580 lift range is PLENTY of lift, as long as you're running a good combo of duration and LSA. Any non-internet motor builder will tell you that. Even some of the biggest powerhouse LT1's are only running .560ish lift, but lots of duration and good LSA patterns which is generally where most of your POWER comes from.
Due to the extensive amount of detonation problems I was having with my 230/230 110 camshaft, I did a LOT R&D into LS1 valvetrains, cam choices, duration, LCA, ICL, and lift figures. These cams running .610 lift is down right insane considering we STILL don't have an LS1 spring that's trustworthy. I think it would be smarter to formulate your own cam for the COMBO, have it custom cut, and keep the lift at a conservative .580-.585ish. Again, you DO NOT need crazy lift to make power. Duration of intake/exhaust valve openings, ICL figures on how early the intake valve will open and close, overall duration, these figures are what need the most attention in formulating the combo to make great power when and where you want it.
I could go on, and if anybody has questions i'll be happy to answer. But I can say this, I did almost 1 full yr of experimenting, and R&D and I have learned a LOT. I now know that it's the entire stick that makes the difference...Not just some fancy big name cam with tons of lift. My cam doesn't have a lot of lift, not near as much as some of the other more popular cams. My #'s are in the sig with 5.3L heads(NON ls6). My cam is double spring safe, very driveable, and makes GREAT power throughout the entire rpm range because I formulated the COMBO that way..
Another good example is Thunder Racing. Most of their cams do not excede .580-.590 lift and make great power.
Something to think about before just picking whatever looks the most attractive on paper (or your computer screen)
josh
Due to the extensive amount of detonation problems I was having with my 230/230 110 camshaft, I did a LOT R&D into LS1 valvetrains, cam choices, duration, LCA, ICL, and lift figures. These cams running .610 lift is down right insane considering we STILL don't have an LS1 spring that's trustworthy. I think it would be smarter to formulate your own cam for the COMBO, have it custom cut, and keep the lift at a conservative .580-.585ish. Again, you DO NOT need crazy lift to make power. Duration of intake/exhaust valve openings, ICL figures on how early the intake valve will open and close, overall duration, these figures are what need the most attention in formulating the combo to make great power when and where you want it.
I could go on, and if anybody has questions i'll be happy to answer. But I can say this, I did almost 1 full yr of experimenting, and R&D and I have learned a LOT. I now know that it's the entire stick that makes the difference...Not just some fancy big name cam with tons of lift. My cam doesn't have a lot of lift, not near as much as some of the other more popular cams. My #'s are in the sig with 5.3L heads(NON ls6). My cam is double spring safe, very driveable, and makes GREAT power throughout the entire rpm range because I formulated the COMBO that way..
Another good example is Thunder Racing. Most of their cams do not excede .580-.590 lift and make great power.
Something to think about before just picking whatever looks the most attractive on paper (or your computer screen)
josh
This is the most accurate info I can think of to use when picking a cam unless you are going to go solid lift!
12-06-2003, 12:01 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by killer01ws6
SO Cracker,
you are saying the TR230/224 .575-563 111LSA will not work well in my 01 ws6 M6???
you are saying the TR230/224 .575-563 111LSA will not work well in my 01 ws6 M6???
12-06-2003, 12:03 AM
#30
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DAMIAN,
Incredible INFO no doubt man and i would really appreciate your input about what cam you would recommend for my 03 Z06 that is driven about 12K miles a year on the highway and local streets and will see limited 1/4 mile action as i am more of a street hot rodder than drag racer, but i want to extract the most HP and torque for my throughout the entire rpm band and want a cam set up which will be as close to stock reliability as possible. Of course i will run the best dual srpings that $ can buy which are compatible with my stock ls6 heads without extra maching, etc. I certainly don't mind a good lope and will get prof. tuning on a dyno, etc.
I had my cam selection sort of narrowed down to theTSP 231/237, .598 lift on a l12lsa but your post makes a ton of sense and i wonder for my gals whether i would be better off with a cam like MTI's C2 or TR 224, etc. Let me get your expert opinion regarding the best cam combo for my stock ls6 heads to compliment my 4.10 gears and other mods set forth below. The car will stay N/A and will not see any spray ever! What cam will kick *** on the streets, highways and 1/4 mile typ straight line acceleration and i prefer to stick with an off the shelf cam as i am more comfortable with that. ALso, i will be shifting around 6500 to 6600 with a 6900 or so rev limit as i know revs kill an engine quicker than anything!
Thanks a ton for your valued reply and info and i also sent you this same note via PM!
Ps-WHat cam specs are you running as your n/a numbers are AWESOME!!!!
Incredible INFO no doubt man and i would really appreciate your input about what cam you would recommend for my 03 Z06 that is driven about 12K miles a year on the highway and local streets and will see limited 1/4 mile action as i am more of a street hot rodder than drag racer, but i want to extract the most HP and torque for my throughout the entire rpm band and want a cam set up which will be as close to stock reliability as possible. Of course i will run the best dual srpings that $ can buy which are compatible with my stock ls6 heads without extra maching, etc. I certainly don't mind a good lope and will get prof. tuning on a dyno, etc.
I had my cam selection sort of narrowed down to theTSP 231/237, .598 lift on a l12lsa but your post makes a ton of sense and i wonder for my gals whether i would be better off with a cam like MTI's C2 or TR 224, etc. Let me get your expert opinion regarding the best cam combo for my stock ls6 heads to compliment my 4.10 gears and other mods set forth below. The car will stay N/A and will not see any spray ever! What cam will kick *** on the streets, highways and 1/4 mile typ straight line acceleration and i prefer to stick with an off the shelf cam as i am more comfortable with that. ALso, i will be shifting around 6500 to 6600 with a 6900 or so rev limit as i know revs kill an engine quicker than anything!
Thanks a ton for your valued reply and info and i also sent you this same note via PM!
Ps-WHat cam specs are you running as your n/a numbers are AWESOME!!!!
12-06-2003, 05:08 AM
#32
Pass along some of that knowledge man . What would be a good cam that would give me another 20 hp + tq ?
MTI Roadster, I just replied to your PM...
12-06-2003, 08:24 AM
#33
The TR 230/224 is a great cam, and has worked well for me. It holds the power up top far better than the XER 224/112/581 cam I used to have. The XER idled, and started better hot, but the TR cam has let my car run quicker and loves to rev. Always trade offs when you go bigger. I've got 4.30 gears, and think you should have a minimum of a 4.10 gear with a M6, but 4.30's or 4.56's would be better with the TR cam.
Care to elaborate more on cam specs Josh. 
Bruce
I've got 4.30 gears, and think you should have a minimum of a 4.10 gear with a M6, but 4.30's or 4.56's would be better with the TR cam.Care to elaborate more on cam specs Josh.
Bruce
12-06-2003, 08:40 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by MTI 427 C5 Roadster
CRACKER/ANYONE ELSE:
I am in the exact same situation as the original poster here and want to know the best cam for everyday use to use in my 03 z06 with stock ls6 heads and all bolt ons including 410 gears.
I am leaning towards a standard split TSP 231/237, .598 lift and 112 lsa but want to explore all possibilities b/f making my decision such as would the MMT 2 cam be better for me. I really want something a tad milder than the g5x2 as that is know to eat srpings, etc.
My car will NOT SEE N20 or other forced induction!
THANKS
I am in the exact same situation as the original poster here and want to know the best cam for everyday use to use in my 03 z06 with stock ls6 heads and all bolt ons including 410 gears.
I am leaning towards a standard split TSP 231/237, .598 lift and 112 lsa but want to explore all possibilities b/f making my decision such as would the MMT 2 cam be better for me. I really want something a tad milder than the g5x2 as that is know to eat srpings, etc.
My car will NOT SEE N20 or other forced induction!
THANKS
12-06-2003, 11:38 AM
#35
Originally Posted by Hardtop
I've got 4.30 gears, and think you should have a minimum of a 4.10 gear with a M6, but 4.30's or 4.56's would be better with the TR cam.
Bruce
Bruce
What gears do you think I should be running with my car . I make power past 6800 with this TR230 ( Thats where we let off on the dyno. I wouldnt be supprised if it pulled past 7000 because the power hadnt started to drop yet.) I am A4 and I am currently have 3.42`s and I am running a Vig 4200 multidisc converter.
Thanks
Jeremy
12-06-2003, 01:46 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Damian
Reverse splits make nice HP #'s, but GENERALLY do not make good TQ. Every reverse split car I have seen locally wasn't fast unless it was geared up. They need gear...
Most local shops, and myself included prefer standard split duration cams for N/A and Nitrous use. There is no arguing they make more TQ on nitrous, and they GENERALLY make more TQ across the board. As I have said before, look at the fastest cars on the board. Most if not all are running standard splits...
josh
Most local shops, and myself included prefer standard split duration cams for N/A and Nitrous use. There is no arguing they make more TQ on nitrous, and they GENERALLY make more TQ across the board. As I have said before, look at the fastest cars on the board. Most if not all are running standard splits...
josh
12-06-2003, 04:04 PM
#40
Originally Posted by Damian
Bruce, nice try buddy
MTI Roadster, clear your PM box it's full..
99-LS1, glad i could help..
josh
MTI Roadster, clear your PM box it's full..
99-LS1, glad i could help..
josh
Offaxis, Jeremy, man its tough for me to say what gear, but you would run better with more than 3.42's. I would say 3.73-4.10 would be nice. I was waiting untill the end of the season to really spin my motor tight, and now we have snow, and the tracks may not open untill spring. I have been shifting at 6600 rpm, below where my dyno graph says I should shift. If I get one more chance this year, I'm going to shift at 6800. I put rod bolts in her and I hope she'll hang together.
My car is hanging in there pretty good at 7000 rpm too, but I don't want to push my luck with a stock bottom end. 
Bruce