Major engine problems with JPR 388
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From: SC
Originally Posted by VINCE
LOL!!! Oom Foo Foo just rec'd a bone. Didn't you pay for tuning already? The rest of the stuff you are paying for is stuff that seems to me to be related to a bad initial build. What about WARRANTY? Now all of what I am saying is mute if Erik is saying he is more at fault for all his engine problems than the other parties involved and Erik believes he should have to pay the LION'S share of the rebuild. If this is true then JD/JPR just gave you some good news. If deep down inside Erik does not feel 80 percent at fault I think Erik needs to go back to the bargaining table and ask for the other parties involved to pay more. As of now I see the other parties involved getting over. What they have offered you is nothing more but part of their profit they are going to make off of you anyway. This is JMO. No offense to the other parties involved, but after reading this entire thread and having personal dealings with the other parties involved via a friends car I have some insight into moods and attitudes towards Eriks situation. JD came into this after the 388ci build and was only involved in facilitating dyno time and some verbal advice via JPR. If I were JD I would not get involved in this build at all. The responsibility to make this right is JPR's. I am going to tell it like I see it. As of now it seems JD is trying to benefit off of Eriks misfortune. JPR knows Mike and I were there that entire weekend when Erik was calling complaining about his car. That's all.
I wouldnt have posted any of this if I thought I was at fault. I dont think I should pay money to fix something that wasnt done right in the first place. If I am paying, it should be an upgrade, not a replacement.
Anyhow, thanks for everyone who has supported me and offered advise or encouragement. Ill get it worked out one way or another.
Erik, could the excess fuel washing cause premature lifter failure due to improper lubrication of the lifters since the oil would have been limited in its lubrication abilities.
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From: SC
Originally Posted by CANNIBAL
Erik, could the excess fuel washing cause premature lifter failure due to improper lubrication of the lifters since the oil would have been limited in its lubrication abilities.
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From: Orange Park, FL
Arent there 2 classifications of over revving? One being missing the gear and bouncing off the limiter, and the other being grabbing a gear but having it be 2nd vice 4th?
Obviously one is WAY more detrimental than the other. Out of curiousity, which way did you over rev this motor?
Obviously one is WAY more detrimental than the other. Out of curiousity, which way did you over rev this motor?
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Chattanooga,Tn
IMO I would take the car to another shop. Just have them install a stroker crank, rod if needed and pistons.
If the compression ring is sealing fine and there is an oil control problem I would say it is related to ring end gap.
What were the ring endgap settings? the second ring should have a larger gap than top, this will keep the oil control rings from getting dirty and helps the oil control ring to seal.
If the cylinder is so glazed that the oil control ring won't do its job I find it hard to believe that that it did great on a leak down test.
Take your car someplace else.
Find someone that will warrenty the work that they do.
They will not warrenty the block (if you take it some place else) but as long as they warrenty ring seal and oil problems take it elsewhere.
If the compression ring is sealing fine and there is an oil control problem I would say it is related to ring end gap.
What were the ring endgap settings? the second ring should have a larger gap than top, this will keep the oil control rings from getting dirty and helps the oil control ring to seal.
If the cylinder is so glazed that the oil control ring won't do its job I find it hard to believe that that it did great on a leak down test.
Take your car someplace else.
Find someone that will warrenty the work that they do.
They will not warrenty the block (if you take it some place else) but as long as they warrenty ring seal and oil problems take it elsewhere.
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From: SC
Originally Posted by Chris99WS6PWTMET
Arent there 2 classifications of over revving? One being missing the gear and bouncing off the limiter, and the other being grabbing a gear but having it be 2nd vice 4th?
Obviously one is WAY more detrimental than the other. Out of curiousity, which way did you over rev this motor?
Obviously one is WAY more detrimental than the other. Out of curiousity, which way did you over rev this motor?
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: SC
Originally Posted by H82BBad
IMO I would take the car to another shop. Just have them install a stroker crank, rod if needed and pistons.
If the compression ring is sealing fine and there is an oil control problem I would say it is related to ring end gap.
What were the ring endgap settings? the second ring should have a larger gap than top, this will keep the oil control rings from getting dirty and helps the oil control ring to seal.
If the cylinder is so glazed that the oil control ring won't do its job I find it hard to believe that that it did great on a leak down test.
Take your car someplace else.
Find someone that will warrenty the work that they do.
They will not warrenty the block (if you take it some place else) but as long as they warrenty ring seal and oil problems take it elsewhere.
If the compression ring is sealing fine and there is an oil control problem I would say it is related to ring end gap.
What were the ring endgap settings? the second ring should have a larger gap than top, this will keep the oil control rings from getting dirty and helps the oil control ring to seal.
If the cylinder is so glazed that the oil control ring won't do its job I find it hard to believe that that it did great on a leak down test.
Take your car someplace else.
Find someone that will warrenty the work that they do.
They will not warrenty the block (if you take it some place else) but as long as they warrenty ring seal and oil problems take it elsewhere.
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From: Atlanta
Damn, LSU has already put GA to sleep in the time it took me to read all this. If the engine has a rev limiter it can't freewheel to 9K. If I had to wake up my engine builder, help him tighten bolts and stand around while he cleaned up his car I wouldn't even be thinking about letting him touch my car again.
ezss - if you truly believe you are right and have adequate evidence I'd head for small claims court. Put your evidence together in an orderly fashion and be prepared to give the judge the "two minute" version of your story. Anything more than that will just confuse and ****-off the judge. Your best argument will come from the fact that it sounds like your motor was smoking from day one. You just have to prove it. Good luck.
ezss - if you truly believe you are right and have adequate evidence I'd head for small claims court. Put your evidence together in an orderly fashion and be prepared to give the judge the "two minute" version of your story. Anything more than that will just confuse and ****-off the judge. Your best argument will come from the fact that it sounds like your motor was smoking from day one. You just have to prove it. Good luck.
Originally Posted by RESTOMAN
You Will Get Nothing Accomplished Here--the People On Here Can Give You Their Opinions All Day---why Don't You Call Me And See What We Can Do.
The Bs On The Internet Is Getting You No Where Closer To Getting Your Car Fixed--
Easiest Way----call Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You Know Joe Prince Is A Stand Up Guy--there Is No Way Around It Erik.
You Are Not Using The Internet Against Anyone--i Have Been Open Along Time Doing Mustangs And Chevrolets--on The Dyno And Street.
So Please If You Want To Resolve Your Problem With Your Engine--call Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Will Give You The Best Price And Best Advice On What To Do--you Can Decide From There.
I Am Jammed Packed Here---i Do Not Have Time For Internet Keyboard Wars--so Stop It Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also Stop Saying I Put The Injectors In Your Car--i Never Did That-i Even Checked All Your Receipts.
I Recommend 42lb Injectors To You--which Will Work Fine If Tuned Properly---you Said You Wanted No Problems--that Is What I Do To The Fuel Systems--other Guys Have Other Opinions--i Base My Recommendations On The Testing I Do On The Dyno And Track.
42lb Injector Will Support 600+hp Atthe Flywheel With .50 Bsfc And Running The Injector At 90% Duty Cycle On An 8 Cylinder Engine.
The Only Way You Will Here From Me Again Is On The Telephone--when You Call--sorry For Being Harsh But My Name And The Shop's Name Are Worth More To Me Than The Internet Bs!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Again Erik
Joe Dutkiewicz
Also Erik--i Never Did Anything Wrong To You To Even Try To Bring Me In On Anything,nor Did Joe Prince And You Know It---so Stop It!!!!
The Bs On The Internet Is Getting You No Where Closer To Getting Your Car Fixed--
Easiest Way----call Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You Know Joe Prince Is A Stand Up Guy--there Is No Way Around It Erik.
You Are Not Using The Internet Against Anyone--i Have Been Open Along Time Doing Mustangs And Chevrolets--on The Dyno And Street.
So Please If You Want To Resolve Your Problem With Your Engine--call Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Will Give You The Best Price And Best Advice On What To Do--you Can Decide From There.
I Am Jammed Packed Here---i Do Not Have Time For Internet Keyboard Wars--so Stop It Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also Stop Saying I Put The Injectors In Your Car--i Never Did That-i Even Checked All Your Receipts.
I Recommend 42lb Injectors To You--which Will Work Fine If Tuned Properly---you Said You Wanted No Problems--that Is What I Do To The Fuel Systems--other Guys Have Other Opinions--i Base My Recommendations On The Testing I Do On The Dyno And Track.
42lb Injector Will Support 600+hp Atthe Flywheel With .50 Bsfc And Running The Injector At 90% Duty Cycle On An 8 Cylinder Engine.
The Only Way You Will Here From Me Again Is On The Telephone--when You Call--sorry For Being Harsh But My Name And The Shop's Name Are Worth More To Me Than The Internet Bs!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Again Erik
Joe Dutkiewicz
Also Erik--i Never Did Anything Wrong To You To Even Try To Bring Me In On Anything,nor Did Joe Prince And You Know It---so Stop It!!!!
Originally Posted by LASTLS1
Well if it were my business and thousands of potenial customers were reading this! I think I would be concerned. From what I've read I would have a hard time spending any money with you. hope you stay busy because this isn't going to help you. BTW if the other guys story didn't have any merit, I would tell him to take it like a man and pull out his wallet! Not helping this guy out CAN'T be worth what this is costing you in potential business! Penny wise, dollar stupid!
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Atlanta
Looks like we're finally at the bottom line. The two two vendors in this case will be much better off in the long run to make this customer whole. Who is right or wrong has become irrelevant at this point. That will be a hard pill for the two vendors to swallow but it will be well worth their while.
After spending an hour reading this thread I agree that these vendors should make you whole. And yea I would worry about my business, hell this thread has 10,631 views as of now! Thats a bunch!
Well after spending 12K + and not getting what you like and it seems like it's not going to get any better. I would just walk away. Just bite the bullet and save your money up and find another shop out there to bulid and tune your car . There are plenty of local shops around the tri-state area Eastside,Cartek,Rapid motorsports and so on who makes some great packages and some very strong running cars..
If it was me I would take my car and run run far away
If it was me I would take my car and run run far away
From my standpoint threads like this bother me. We've had them before and we will have them again.
Now when I hear facts, I also try to listen and see what else is going on. Now I have seen in some cases that folks get in over their head and get mad if a car does not dyno within 2 rwhp of some other package they heard about it.
In other situations, we hear about a motor combo that has issues.
In this case, a few things concerned me:
-Told to upgrade injectors, well some injectors at 58psi like 30 lb svo's can be adequate
-Aftermarket rods don't stretch seeing 6400-7000 rpms
-Comp R preload should be zero lash to like .010 if you want to get down to it
I hate to read about combos that struggle, I have been there.
If you car has an oil problem, it's the rings, seals, the guides, cracked heads, or something else that can be fixed.
JD did not originally build the motor, he has not direct liability unless he did merge with JPR, in which case warranties would (I assume) follow JPR.
I have seen motors here and there with oil issues and blowby issues and rather than people argue about it for a few hours I'd rather see the motor fixed and run properly.
Now when I hear facts, I also try to listen and see what else is going on. Now I have seen in some cases that folks get in over their head and get mad if a car does not dyno within 2 rwhp of some other package they heard about it.
In other situations, we hear about a motor combo that has issues.
In this case, a few things concerned me:
-Told to upgrade injectors, well some injectors at 58psi like 30 lb svo's can be adequate
-Aftermarket rods don't stretch seeing 6400-7000 rpms
-Comp R preload should be zero lash to like .010 if you want to get down to it
I hate to read about combos that struggle, I have been there.
If you car has an oil problem, it's the rings, seals, the guides, cracked heads, or something else that can be fixed.
JD did not originally build the motor, he has not direct liability unless he did merge with JPR, in which case warranties would (I assume) follow JPR.
I have seen motors here and there with oil issues and blowby issues and rather than people argue about it for a few hours I'd rather see the motor fixed and run properly.
Im not going to go into whos right or wrong or what I think should be done. Im sure my opinion has no weight in JDs or JPRs mind. I will say this.......I spent 24,600 bucks last year on my cars. I plan on doin roughly the same this year on my new car. I know from reading this thread JPR nor JD will see a single penny. Whos fault it is at this point doesnt matter. Someone should have taken care of this man purely for the shops reputation. Seems theres too much pride @ JDs and not enough customer service......
Goodluck man
Goodluck man
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From: Atlanta
Judges in Magistrate's Court tend to side with the plantiff unless the other side presents some fairly compelling evidence in their defense.
I once saw a Magistrate judge rule in favor of a planfiff who had his car taken to a repair shop on a hook and demanded that nothing be done to the car other than replace the clutch. The shop did the job and then the car wouldn't start. The judge ruled that the shop should have made sure the car would start before replacing the clutch. Plantiff walked away from $800 repair bill. That was my last trip to Magistrate's court as a defendant.
I once saw a Magistrate judge rule in favor of a planfiff who had his car taken to a repair shop on a hook and demanded that nothing be done to the car other than replace the clutch. The shop did the job and then the car wouldn't start. The judge ruled that the shop should have made sure the car would start before replacing the clutch. Plantiff walked away from $800 repair bill. That was my last trip to Magistrate's court as a defendant.