these are 5.3 new 706 castings from TEA
My point get what you want budwiser or miller

 

Simple statement - make of it what you will. I had a set of Patriot Stage 2's on my car ..................... for all of 4 months. They came off - now I have a set of TEA Stage 1.5 heads. Both companies offer great customer service with Terry at PP and Brent at TEA - but I feel one offers a much better product. Car went 11.7 at 118 mph at my first time out at the track with the TEA's - FULL WEIGHT (with my 245lb *** driving), stock suspension and completely untuned.

Just in driving the car around, there was a noticable SOTP difference in the setups. IMO (and it is MY opinion) - one product is superior to the other.

 

Hannibal,
I think that you dynoed at over 400 at the wheels with the Patriot 5.3's.I am sure the car would have went 11.7's @ 118 with the other heads.That is just my opinion.

 

Yes - I dynoed 408RWHP and 380TQ. Problem was power would DIE at 5900 RPM's. So my guess is the heads made power - I just couldnt get to it. I dont think I would have seen 11.7's or 118 mph when I would have had to short shift my way through the 1320'. Also - 408 wasnt exactly impressive to me considering the cam I was running.

 

Flow #s are not everything even on the same bench. Velocity and swirl are some other key factors. As Damian said TEAs have consistantly turned good #s on the dyno and track. I have a set of TEAs to go my car.

 

Honestly, don't even look at dyno numbers if I was in your position. Look at track times, forget the dyno and flow bench numbers. Like what was said before you want performance. I don't personally know how the Patriot heads run on the track that is for those owners to pipe in about being the Patriot heads are fairly new to the market. As far as I would look at it, I could take a chance and go with the unknown or you can go with the for sure thing. The more you know of the Patriot heads (unknown) better decision you will make. Customer service is terrific according to folks that have had both. Might be a good idea to look for track numbers on Patriot heads. Personally I'm having a local SBF guy do a set of 5.3 heads I picked up. Yeah that is a chance as well, (probiably larger one for that matter), but that is something I'm willing to do given the rep of the shop I'm gonna take my heads to.

 

I'll be the first to tell you not to chase flow numbers, but in your case you are going to be running a reverse split cam. The last thing you want is an exaust restriction. This is why I stated I would start by comparing the exaust flow numbers and do some intake/exaust comparisons. You want to know which will be better?? You have to start somewhere.

 

Does anyone know what the TEA 1.5s are flowing on the exhaust with out the pipe? I also thought the 1.5s using the stock exhaust valve was forbetter flow and velocity.

 

I thought I saw a post A while back from Jason@Thunder stating TEA 1.5's flowed 220 on their bench without a pipe (pretty good).

 

ET doesn't mean much when comparing heads.

Cars with light weight and ~360rwhp can go mid 11's and have.
Trap speed is a better indicator of power production than ET.

Dyno's are also useful tools too.

 

My TEA heads sucked without the pipe. That's why I don't make any power

 

Unless things have changed...it's my understanding the TEA exhaust ports are developed WITH the pipe so without probably isn't a true estimate.

Anyone know what a stock head flows with a pipe?

 

Well NO WAY those TEA heads flow 270 on the exhaust side, No one flows that much. Maybe you meant 230???? Anyhow, I have never had TEA heads but I have heard very good things about them. I just received a set of PP 6.0 LS6 heads and I think their finish out is VERY good for a set of CNC heads. OF course, PP are the newer kids on the block, but after having talked with Terry @ PP, I feel he and Brian @ TEA share the same customer service philosophy. Can't go wring with either one really in my opinion. Both great bang for the buck !!!!!

 

10 years ago when I worked at Holley designing their SysteMax heads I took an airflow seminar at Superflow in Detroit. The speaker was Ken Sperry, he was actively working on the LS1 heads at that time (5 year lead time from research to production). He told all of us to never ever flow, develop or otherwise work on a exhaust port without a stack (or pipe) attached on the flowbench. The reason is improper flow patterns can set up in the port and flow good air WITHOUT a pipe and then when the head goes on the engine it doesn't make power. You can then flow it with a pipe and it flows less, this is a bad exhaust port and that head will never make power. The exhaust port is so short that it allows these possible improper flow patterns to set up, i.e. the air is flowing straight up out of the port rather then straight out like it needs to. With that being said our heads generally flow 260-270 on the exhaust with a pipe, you can generally subtract 30 cfm without a pipe, our heads have supposedly flowed 240 on Thunders bench. I have seen one person post a difference of 60 but I don't see how. Either way if all of the other head porters would get on board and flow their heads with a pipe then the TRUE comparisions could take place. We use various diameters of pipe that are straight and 5" in length, we got ours at the local Midas out of the scrap bin and cut them to length and simply attach them with a roll of clay. If any other porters would like a pipe we will send them one for free. Hope this helps.

 

Tea or Patriot? MTI

 

i went 118 mph with my patriot stg 2 5.3's and a 224/581/112 cam (macs too). this was without asps, and through a restrictive exhaust, as well as stock 3.42 gears. untuned (was doing 112.5-113 mph cam only, same weight and DA, only change being heads)

weight was just over 3400 and the DA was +400 ft, plus i cant drive for crap

now as the car sits i should be over 120 with the same weight and weather (added asps and a new exhaust)

gears might even add a few more

im very satisfied, plus terry is great to deal with

personally i dont think you could go wrong with either

 

Now thats the kind of stuff I like to hear Mr. Tooley.

 

Thanks for the insight Brian. As you say though there is ALOT of confusion regarding flow numbers if ONE flows with a pipe and every one else is flowing them WITHOUT a pipe. If we could get EVERYONE to send a set of heads to an independent flow bench, now THAT would be the ticket. It would never happen but I know HOT ROD tested some small block heads (non-LS1) and that was a very useful comparison.

There is a company down here I use called Kim Barr Racing that has a superflow 600 and I take all my heads to him to get them flowed PRIOR to me putting them on a car. I know in one instance I went back and forth from the porter's to Kim Barr four or five times until the flow numbers were where I wanted them. It costs about 50 dollars a pop to get them flowed but it's worth it IMO. Also since I always use the same flow bench and flow bench technician, the consistency of the information is better.

Tag.....with that 4 inch bore I would go with 2.055 or even 2.08's with 1.60 exhaust. So in essence I agree you need Stage 3's.

BTW, Race teams spend MILLIONS of dollars every year bench testing heads to get the absolute best air flow they can. GENERALLY speaking if the head flows more air it WILL make more power. This is a little different than dyno testing a car. There are plenty of cars that dyno well but DON'T produce the ET's they should.

 

If I were you I would go with your gut. When I joined this board I can recall alot of bashing directed at TEA, most people said you get what you pay for. Nowadays it seems directed at PP, and most people say you get what you pay for. People have mentioned the warranty that TEA has, but are those heads being so cheap covered by that warranty? I thought PP had the no core charge? Both have their advantages and both have their backers. IMO flow numbers are important just not as important as actual HP and 1/4 times.

 

We just took part in a Muscle Mustang head shootout of the same type, except different heads were sent to different porters. The flow numbers they got on our heads was not what we got, but our heads made the most power. So I'm starting to think that the technology in the flowbench is starting to show through i.e. if we flow a AFR 225 Ford head on our bench and its 30 cfm down from our TWR 225 head but on somebody else's bench they are very close in flow numbers, but then on the engine the TWR head is much better in power then WTF?
The same can be said of engine RWHP, we have seen two H/C cars on our dyno with the same heads and cam (224/224), one made 435 and the other made 395? BTW, the most we have ever seen is 442 (LS6 heads, big cam). So the #1 question in our minds is how is this possible? Thats what we are actively working on to find out. Of course we may never know. I guess the same reason one factory car dyno's 285 and the next 315, if you could figure this out you could make alot of money and alot of people happy. I think it has something to do with the crankshaft reluctor wheel or cam position sensor, but I don't know enough about that stuff to say.
I will send a head to any shootout of any type, of course not everyone knows what has transpired here at TEA in the last two weeks I am hesitant to elaborate but the last two sets of 5.3 Stg 1.5 heads that I "hand finished to competition level" flowed
300 @ .550
312 @ .600
317 @ .675 (port stall)
and considering the most flow we have seen from anyones LS1 (4.8/5.3/5.7) head on our bench is 285 then you can see why I am brimming with confidence. Of course the Muscle Mustang dyno test helped too!!

"People have mentioned the warranty that TEA has, but are those heads being so cheap covered by that warranty?"

Our Stg 1.5 head costs $1559, the new 5.3 cores are $300 and then the "hand finish to competition level" adds another $250 so I don't know if you would call them cheap, but yes, everything we do has a warranty. Most people think its crazy, but we did that to emphasize the confidence we have in the parts we use on our heads.