Oil stravtion problems 1st and 2nd gear
#21
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as far as drilling the cups goes i'm not reallly sure what 01ssreda4 is saying. you can't believe that 8 little cups holding oil on the top of the motor does nothing to the level in the pan itself. if you have the holes in the cups common sense says you will have slightly more oil in the pan. am i missing something?
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Drilling holes in the lifter trays does absolutely nothing. Here's why, when you drill the hole, the oil fills to that point then starts dumping out of the hole as the level tries to increase over the hole. If there is no hole then the oil will fill the whole lifter cup, then as the level reaches the top of the cup, it will overflow out the top. I mean the cup can only be so full. Drilling holes in the cups doesnt help it drain any quicker obviously draining through 8 holes isnt quicker then 8 cups overflowing is it? It would start the drain process a tiny bit sooner, but really that would be determined by how full the lifter cup stays during normal operation.
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You're right and still dont see it. If the holes are there the cups hold less oil. Correct. It doesnt effect how quick the oil drains back to the pan bc the cups will overflow when they get full. If you run a half a quart or whatever more oil total, that will account for the oil trapped in the cups during operation. I was simply illustrating oil drainback, nothing more, nothing less. I was trying to shed some light on the "drill holes in the lifter cup suggestion"
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Really? You drill 4 holes in each lifter tray and it will basically drain little or no oil. Man you must be a teacher not an engine builder. Just like removing the casting flask at the oil ports in my oil pan at my oil filter. One port was halfway covered up. Maybe I shouldn't have cleaned it up. Or extending the oil oump pickup tube to the back of the pan to eliminate oil starvation under extreme or even decent acceleration. Stock is the best from what you preach.
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#26
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If the holes are too small I can somewhat agree but the oil draining back is not like holding a plastic cup under a pouring faucet. If that much oil was on top of the motor you would need 10 quarts in the oil pan.
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You really dont get it do you??? Its a cup, and for some a cup with a hole. What you believe doesnt change the laws of physics. Whether the oil drains through a hole or over the top of the cup it doesnt change ****. It will start to drainback a little sooner with drilled holes, yes I agree. But a motor turns thousands of rpms a minute. So the lifter cups fill up and hold oil, to the hole or to the top, minus that amount from the total internal volume and then you have a new figure, active circulating volume. A predicted figure noted from the known stationary volume of oil in the lifter cups at a given time. Oil system will still function the same just with slightly more or slightly less in the cups at a given time. Doesnt change oil drainback as a whole. And thats what we are discussing in the thread.
#32
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You really dont get it do you??? Its a cup, and for some a cup with a hole. What you believe doesnt change the laws of physics. Whether the oil drains through a hole or over the top of the cup it doesnt change ****. It will start to drainback a little sooner with drilled holes, yes I agree. But a motor turns thousands of rpms a minute. So the lifter cups fill up and hold oil, to the hole or to the top, minus that amount from the total internal volume and then you have a new figure, active circulating volume. A predicted figure noted from the known stationary volume of oil in the lifter cups at a given time. Oil system will still function the same just with slightly more or slightly less in the cups at a given time. Doesnt change oil drainback as a whole. And thats what we are discussing in the thread.
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does anyone have any pics of the cups so i can understand what the argument is about? I tend to side with butler. Improving oil drainback should solve the problem and adding oil will increase problems with windage, where the rotating asm spins through the oil. not good.
I having taken one of these engines apart and visually see whats going on so i dont know. But again getting rid of casting flash is always a good thing
I having taken one of these engines apart and visually see whats going on so i dont know. But again getting rid of casting flash is always a good thing
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^^^ first let me say that from the horse's mouth he said if the cup fills up you have way to much oil in the top of your motor. So if the heads arent dumping oil into the cup then the hole in the cup does no good either. Plus, the cups sit at an angle, they dont even have to be 90% full before the spill over. Also, if you are argueing with butler and he says the lifter cups retain oil during operation then duh running oil a quart over wont matter bc its stuck in the lifter cups. I wish some people could form one complete concise thought.
BTW, there are holes in the bottom of each cup, with a pushrod going through the center where it rests on top of the lifter. The "bottom" of the cup is loosely sealed to lifter. The cup has slots to keep the lifter from rotating. They are what holds lifters up when people do the roulette method during cam swaps.
BTW, there are holes in the bottom of each cup, with a pushrod going through the center where it rests on top of the lifter. The "bottom" of the cup is loosely sealed to lifter. The cup has slots to keep the lifter from rotating. They are what holds lifters up when people do the roulette method during cam swaps.
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Im with him/TJ because he has a stock pump with way way more power and pulls 1.3 60ft's and run 9's on motor and has no problems with his oil pump. also these stock oil sending units and gauges suck and are not accurate at all.
sounds like a pump or an o ring issue with his cam install? what oil are you running
sounds like a pump or an o ring issue with his cam install? what oil are you running
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Ok well i started to ride around on my mickey thompson ET street around town. Normally the oil pressure will fall over to shy of 80 psi at 6k rpms. But under hard acceleration in first and second it will fall back to around 40 psi. I am thinking that the oil is being slammed to the back of the pan starving the pick to a little extent. Because no pressure issue in 3rd or 4th. If you lightly accelerate in 1st and 2nd the problem is not there. Is anyone else having this issue. If so what are you doing to correct it?
2000 LS1
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2000 LS1
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OP, im sorry to have to go back two pages and quote you here. But let me offer you a sound piece of advice from experience. I had a similar issue to yours. Long story short I found .040 endplay in the crank and the thrust bearing and surface trashed. Want my honest advice, if your oil pressure is ducking down under load. Check your crank endplay. I caught mine and everything in the motor was salvageable except the crank. it should be between .004 and .008.
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I have a feeling that the crank sliding around was causing the fluctuation in pressure upon accel. Mine happened like this: I would punch it, it would downshit and the rpms would jump up, then the oil pressure would go 60-70 psi, then it would fall back to 40 or so (per factory gauge) for about a second then it would go back to 60+ for the remainder of the pull. Im not saying thats the OPs problem just something that only takes a second to check for piece of mind. I originally thought it was an intial oil drainback issue and found that lots of times after a fresh oil change it would stop doing it for a while. I put in another shortblock, same pump, pickup, pan, etc and it hasnt happened since. My new shortblock has .005 endplay, which i will be checking regularily.
#39
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To the posts that said add more oil, dont. You should never overfill the oil. The motor can lose more oil pressure due to windage (the oil being whipped into foam/aerated oil)
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Im with him/TJ because he has a stock pump with way way more power and pulls 1.3 60ft's and run 9's on motor and has no problems with his oil pump. also these stock oil sending units and gauges suck and are not accurate at all.
sounds like a pump or an o ring issue with his cam install? what oil are you running
sounds like a pump or an o ring issue with his cam install? what oil are you running
Well after I read the rest of the posts, it has nothing to do with the lifter trays. Know that for a fact. I just have a feeling that is is getting slammed to the rear of the pan. and then the pick up has no oil push threw the pump. I still have no idea. It may be a poor connection at the sensor. Since it would be in the back and hard to see.
Last edited by RsSean; 02-08-2010 at 05:15 PM.