head bolt threads stripped in lsx
Threads Without seeing how badly stripped the holes are and how many, it is difficult to say how best to fix this.
You may be able to drill and tap the holes for half inch studs if the holes are not stripped to the point the holes too large to tap for half inch. I rethread LSX blocks on a regular basis for half inch threads. Otherwise you will have to get Time Serts installed to get it back to 11 mm.
Steve
You may be able to drill and tap the holes for half inch studs if the holes are not stripped to the point the holes too large to tap for half inch. I rethread LSX blocks on a regular basis for half inch threads. Otherwise you will have to get Time Serts installed to get it back to 11 mm.
Steve
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Without seeing how badly stripped the holes are and how many, it is difficult to say how best to fix this.
You may be able to drill and tap the holes for half inch studs if the holes are not stripped to the point the holes too large to tap for half inch. I rethread LSX blocks on a regular basis for half inch threads. Otherwise you will have to get Time Serts installed to get it back to 11 mm.
Steve
You may be able to drill and tap the holes for half inch studs if the holes are not stripped to the point the holes too large to tap for half inch. I rethread LSX blocks on a regular basis for half inch threads. Otherwise you will have to get Time Serts installed to get it back to 11 mm.
Steve
Steve....long time no see. Lets catch up on the phone one day soon!
What do you think of the heli-coil option?
Cheers,
Tony
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
If this happend to me I and I hadn't seen this thread, I would have gone for helicoils because it's what I know. How do you like those Time Serts. They look like a slicker version of a helicoil. Are they easier to use?
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I was using ARP head bolts and I had one on the last torque sequence suck the threads right out of the block. It was near the back of the motor. Helicoils wont work. I knew someone that worked at a dealership and they were kind enough to let me borrow their time cert set. About the only way your going to get one is if you know someone at a dealership or a pretty big shop that will have them or buy it which is alot of $$$$$. Ditch the bolts and go with head studs. You won't have to worry about it anymore, no messes and all ya have to do is tighten the studs just passed hand tight
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9 Second Club
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I was using ARP head bolts and I had one on the last torque sequence suck the threads right out of the block. It was near the back of the motor. Helicoils wont work. I knew someone that worked at a dealership and they were kind enough to let me borrow their time cert set. About the only way your going to get one is if you know someone at a dealership or a pretty big shop that will have them or buy it which is alot of $$$$$. Ditch the bolts and go with head studs. You won't have to worry about it anymore, no messes and all ya have to do is tighten the studs just passed hand tight
The question I would ask on the Timeserts is that the stock setup sets the threaded portion low in the counterbore of the block allowing a long length for bolt stretch/preload. Setting the threads at the top of the counterbore greatly reduces the length over which stretch is developed such that a reduced (necked down) unthreaded length might be required. Curious if anyone has investigated this and has the answer?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
The question I would ask on the Timeserts is that the stock setup sets the threaded portion low in the counterbore of the block allowing a long length for bolt stretch/preload. Setting the threads at the top of the counterbore greatly reduces the length over which stretch is developed such that a reduced (necked down) unthreaded length might be required. Curious if anyone has investigated this and has the answer?
the time-sert is installed in the same location as the original threads...
in attached time-sert instruction sheet, look at the marks on the drill bit, tap, driver tool... that is how deep the time-sert goes into the block.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
A time-sert is a good thread replacement because it is a steel sleeve;
it's inner threads are "synchronized" with the outer threads to maintain uniform thickness...
when it is installed, after it threads all the way to the bottom, it expands slightly to stake itself into the hole...
and also, during installation it is red loctite'd in.
I have not had to use any, but I have seen them in action, they install fairly quickly/easily.
The -100 kit has the bits, and can be obtained from ebay for about $100.
The -300 kit has the guide plate, and can be got on ebay for about $100.
it's inner threads are "synchronized" with the outer threads to maintain uniform thickness...
when it is installed, after it threads all the way to the bottom, it expands slightly to stake itself into the hole...
and also, during installation it is red loctite'd in.
I have not had to use any, but I have seen them in action, they install fairly quickly/easily.
The -100 kit has the bits, and can be obtained from ebay for about $100.
The -300 kit has the guide plate, and can be got on ebay for about $100.
Last edited by joecar; Mar 22, 2011 at 03:59 PM. Reason: underline 'sleeve'
Helicoil vs. TimeSert Helicoil inserts work fine for most applications. They are no where near as strong as a TimeSert and will not hold up to head bolt torque.
Even with the TimeSert, you need to get them the proper length so you don't end up stripping it out of the hole. To answer the question about the depth from the deck, the reason the bolt holes are counter bored is to keep the deck surface of the block from distorting when the heads are bolted up. Modern MLS gaskets will leak if the deck lifts up around the bolt holes. This is obviously more critical with an aluminum block than an iron one. One should use good engineering practice regardless.
I'll give you a call one day next week Tony to see what you are up to!
Even with the TimeSert, you need to get them the proper length so you don't end up stripping it out of the hole. To answer the question about the depth from the deck, the reason the bolt holes are counter bored is to keep the deck surface of the block from distorting when the heads are bolted up. Modern MLS gaskets will leak if the deck lifts up around the bolt holes. This is obviously more critical with an aluminum block than an iron one. One should use good engineering practice regardless.
I'll give you a call one day next week Tony to see what you are up to!
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
OK, understand now. The general information (not specific to the LS1) shows the insert being installed at the top of the hole being repaired. The GEN III specific instructions address this. Thanks for the link.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ohio
I have the same problem on one hole (ls6). Although I hope your engine back together by now I am putting this up in case someone has a similar situation.
TimeSert Kit
P/n J-42385-100 M11x2.0 Head bolt repair kit price $450.30
Kit includes all the tools and 10 inserts.
Additional inserts may be ordered separately at any time.
Not cheap doing it that way.
TimeSert Kit
P/n J-42385-100 M11x2.0 Head bolt repair kit price $450.30
Kit includes all the tools and 10 inserts.
Additional inserts may be ordered separately at any time.
Not cheap doing it that way.
Last edited by blazer427X3; Apr 10, 2010 at 01:04 AM.
Teching In
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
I am interested in th 1/2 inch stud option. How well does this work in comparison to the time-sert method? What stud is the best to use?
I have one head bolt hole in the back of a 5.7 Gen III that stripped today. There should be plenty of metal for a 1/2 inch tap, but I do not want to destroy it further if there is any chance it will not work.
Also, when using the stud option, what torque goes on the nut to lock it down making sure the head is evenly tight? 75 ft. lbs?
Now I suppose I need to buy new head bolts for the rest of that side also. . .
I have one head bolt hole in the back of a 5.7 Gen III that stripped today. There should be plenty of metal for a 1/2 inch tap, but I do not want to destroy it further if there is any chance it will not work.
Also, when using the stud option, what torque goes on the nut to lock it down making sure the head is evenly tight? 75 ft. lbs?
Now I suppose I need to buy new head bolts for the rest of that side also. . .
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ohio
First of all, sorry to hear about this happening to you DuoDS. I ended up having three head bolt holes with pulled threads in my LS6 block so this is something I am familiar with.
I talked with Steve when this first happened (thanks again for the advice Steve) and he recommended that if you do drill the holes to accept a 1/2" stud or bolt you should probably do all of them on that side. He and a few other people I spoke with said that it would not be possible to apply an even pull with mismatched size head bolts/studs.
I used ARP studs instead of the factory angle torque bolts. The stud kit cost around $280.00 . You can order studs, washers and nuts individually from them too. I've never heard of anyone complaining about the quality of their producuts.
To fix mine I ended up buying two used Kent-Moore TimeSert kits on Ebay. Instead of shelling out the $450.00 to buy the kit new I was able to find both the kits I needed for a total of $181.00 including shipping. They came from a dealership that had recently closed and although the kits were advertised as used they dont show any signs of ever being used.
If you use the Kent-Moore sets you need two seperate kits :
42385-100 includes the inserts, taps and drill bit for doing cylinder heads (m11x2.0) both short and long bolts and it also has drill, tap and inserts for repairing main bearing cap holes.
42385-300 is the alignment fixtures set. It includes the alignment plate, drill bushing, centering pin and a collar to correctly set the drill depth for the short bolt holes. It also has alignment plates included in the set for main bearing cap holes and starter bolt holes if I remember correctly.
I talked with Steve when this first happened (thanks again for the advice Steve) and he recommended that if you do drill the holes to accept a 1/2" stud or bolt you should probably do all of them on that side. He and a few other people I spoke with said that it would not be possible to apply an even pull with mismatched size head bolts/studs.
I used ARP studs instead of the factory angle torque bolts. The stud kit cost around $280.00 . You can order studs, washers and nuts individually from them too. I've never heard of anyone complaining about the quality of their producuts.
To fix mine I ended up buying two used Kent-Moore TimeSert kits on Ebay. Instead of shelling out the $450.00 to buy the kit new I was able to find both the kits I needed for a total of $181.00 including shipping. They came from a dealership that had recently closed and although the kits were advertised as used they dont show any signs of ever being used.
If you use the Kent-Moore sets you need two seperate kits :
42385-100 includes the inserts, taps and drill bit for doing cylinder heads (m11x2.0) both short and long bolts and it also has drill, tap and inserts for repairing main bearing cap holes.
42385-300 is the alignment fixtures set. It includes the alignment plate, drill bushing, centering pin and a collar to correctly set the drill depth for the short bolt holes. It also has alignment plates included in the set for main bearing cap holes and starter bolt holes if I remember correctly.
Last edited by blazer427X3; Jul 3, 2010 at 08:46 AM.