Cam Swap #2... asking for help this time...
Teching In
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The only experience I have with DRM was a club dyno day. My old ORY would hit the floorboard on hard accel. I paid for 2 pulls, first on nitrous and Doug heard rattling...told me to stay off the bottle and he took my car off the dyno. So much for a 2nd pull. The hp and tq curve was smooth, no signs of kr. But I consider this experience minimal compared to other stories Ive heard about local shops.
Make sure you dont have a mechanical problem. Do a quick compression check. If you had any issues with PTV contact it would show up on a compression test. A friend of mine had a built up v6 with a huge cam that kissed the valves on the first start up. The rough idle was blamed on the cam, car was driven for 2 years! And yes the engine was built by a speed shop.
Im learning to tune myself and its VERY informative. I recommend to buy a tuning book even if you dont want to task yourself with tuning the car. Just the added education will better serve your tuning money spent well.
+1 on joining mngmp!
Make sure you dont have a mechanical problem. Do a quick compression check. If you had any issues with PTV contact it would show up on a compression test. A friend of mine had a built up v6 with a huge cam that kissed the valves on the first start up. The rough idle was blamed on the cam, car was driven for 2 years! And yes the engine was built by a speed shop.
Im learning to tune myself and its VERY informative. I recommend to buy a tuning book even if you dont want to task yourself with tuning the car. Just the added education will better serve your tuning money spent well.
+1 on joining mngmp!
How would have it looked with a rod hanging out of the block if it had a rod coming apart. We do have a certain amount of responsibility when there is that many people around a strange to us car on the dyno.
Randy
Teching In
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Did the other shop hone the cylinder?
Did they lap the valves to make sure the seats were still good?
Is it some welded up head with a seat cocked in there? Did they heat treat the head after welding?
Are there more bent valves?
Cracked guide?
Is the cam installed right?
Pushrods right? Or are they hanging the valve open?
Valve springs close?
Is the cam worth a crap?
Is the 3 inch pretty much wide open exhaust helping?
is the stock un-ported t-body worth anything?
So many unknowns it's impossible to really know why it isn't some super fast internet hotrod. Hence the reason why we suggested a cam swap, because a smaller cam would still reach is goals. Then tear into the heads, double check all these other unknowns..
Randy
Last edited by Ranrace; Mar 26, 2010 at 09:58 AM.
Teching In
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If someone wants and the Poker will let them try to make the missing 80 RWHP. Come on up, we will give our dyno free of charge. Buy the beer, lunch and etc. There is a few more horsepower and it could drive better, that is the case with anything that you spend more time on. But if anyone of these super tuners in the area want to take a stab at making the power . Be our guess, use our dyno, enjoy a free lunch. Anytime you guys want, I will be here for as long as you need the dyno. The only thing is don't run it past 6600 rpm, we don't feel like cleaning up more oil on the floor.
You guys are so good come on up
Randy
You guys are so good come on up
Randy
Last edited by Ranrace; Mar 26, 2010 at 09:59 AM.
Did you ever call us for a couple more runs after you got the exhaust to quit banging off the floor? How is a guy to know if it's a exhaust banging, rod coming apart, other crazy stuff in 3 minutes of being around your car. Next time you are in the area, make sure to stop by for your other pull.
How would have it looked with a rod hanging out of the block if it had a rod coming apart. We do have a certain amount of responsibility when there is that many people around a strange to us car on the dyno.
Randy
How would have it looked with a rod hanging out of the block if it had a rod coming apart. We do have a certain amount of responsibility when there is that many people around a strange to us car on the dyno.
Randy
Last fall I changed the exhaust and installed poly motor mounts. Another club dyno day is scheduled late april. Hopefully Ill have enough tuning time in by then to make it worth it.
Thanks for the PM randy. I will try and get the car up there sometimes soon and see if Doug can get that surging polished up and that check engine light. I usually run a busy schedule and stuff so it makes it tough 
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 213
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From: The Midwest
The Atomic Orange Z was built purposely as a road racer. watch him on the road course and you'll see how that motor performs. it made something like 600rwhp on rippies dyno, but down there in TX, it was short ~20rwhp. different dynos, different conditions, etc, you should know this. More importantly, after his flogging of the motor (and mine for the last 3 yrs) i can safely say, this motor is stout and still runs strong. Thats a testament to how DRM can build cars! And even others noted, cars are sent in to him from around the US, thats gotta say something as well...
Your cam should be good but if your looking to down grade your HP go to like a 224 cam, that would make that kind of power with those heads. I've heard really good things about DRM but if everyone says he is so terrible try Boos Performance, he did my car and it runs awesome!
Otherwise, listen to 1badburb. His car runs incredibly and flawlessly and if DRM can build a car like that, you can't hate the place haha!
Otherwise, listen to 1badburb. His car runs incredibly and flawlessly and if DRM can build a car like that, you can't hate the place haha!
I'll also note one more thing, my bud Nick's car was having big issues the couple days before we went to TX. my one phone call at 8-9pm on thursday night to Randy, and Nicks car was in the shop first thing friday morn. the problem was found and figured out around the afternoon time period. THATS how dedicated Randy, Doug and Todd are to those who come in!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 29
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From: Minnesota
haha-to show my confidence in DRM...Ill put my car out there-with one of them babysitting you of course (I already had the feeling of a $15k lawn ornament-and I dont want it back).... You guys are all talk-they are the only ones that know what kind of shape my car was in. If and when a professional touches my car-IT WILL BE DRM. period. PS-I dont know how tuning works-but WHEN whoever screws it up.... they will be paying Rippie to fix it, those are the terms.
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Teching In
Joined: May 2006
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I totally understand that its a liability thing with a strange car and strange noises. I owned the car for about a month at that time. It was a club dyno day so the rate was cheap. I just would have liked to have the second pull motor only but before I could get dougs attention the straps were already off. Again, minor experience. No big deal. I havent been to any other speed shop with my car since.
Last fall I changed the exhaust and installed poly motor mounts. Another club dyno day is scheduled late april. Hopefully Ill have enough tuning time in by then to make it worth it.
Last fall I changed the exhaust and installed poly motor mounts. Another club dyno day is scheduled late april. Hopefully Ill have enough tuning time in by then to make it worth it.
Randy
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Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Buffalo
I want to see the freakin genius's come and fix this car with tuning rather then hide behind their keyboard and talk smart. So I think the super tuners should come for the free beer and lunch and fix this mans car.
I witnessed this car on the dyno and saw all the effort Doug Randy and Todd put into it fixing problems that were installed with the heads and cam (no offense intended to the owner). Tuning is not the problem there is at least one issue holding this engine back. That is why pokerfreak posted his question so why don't we focus on the problem and stop pointing fingers. The cam is on the large side for an automatic car I would almost bet money the valve springs are not up to the task of keeping things happy. The amount of blue smoke under power really should be addressed also ring seal is very important for power. Was the cam installed correctly? Are the springs matched to the cam?
I witnessed this car on the dyno and saw all the effort Doug Randy and Todd put into it fixing problems that were installed with the heads and cam (no offense intended to the owner). Tuning is not the problem there is at least one issue holding this engine back. That is why pokerfreak posted his question so why don't we focus on the problem and stop pointing fingers. The cam is on the large side for an automatic car I would almost bet money the valve springs are not up to the task of keeping things happy. The amount of blue smoke under power really should be addressed also ring seal is very important for power. Was the cam installed correctly? Are the springs matched to the cam?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Minnesota
to be honest...i cant verify any work was done properly before it was put into DRM's hands... My valve springs are Partriot Duals good to 650 lift... they were 255 bucks (if that helps). Like I said before... I stand behind DRM and any takers are welcome to step up to the plate with MY CAR!!! (given that if they mess anything up-they once again...pay DRM to fix it)
I don't see any issue with the cam specs in an auto car my cam is 234/242 with .600.610 lift on a 110 lsa(G5x3), and it runs great, idles great and makes awesome power(400hp/400trq,A4, DanaS60, stalled). I don't know who put your cam and other stuff in the car, but if it wasn't done properly than that is the issue. No reason to change the cam IMO, unless you want to. Any capable tuner should be able to tune the car if everything with car is up to par.
There is a lot more info coming out in this thread than there was earlier. Thats why most people like myself jumped to the conclusion and put the blame on the shop because of the many who have had a bad experience with DRM.
There is a lot more info coming out in this thread than there was earlier. Thats why most people like myself jumped to the conclusion and put the blame on the shop because of the many who have had a bad experience with DRM.
I don't see any issue with the cam specs in an auto car my cam is 234/242 with .600.610 lift on a 110 lsa(G5x3), and it runs great, idles great and makes awesome power(400hp/400trq,A4, DanaS60, stalled). I don't know who put your cam and other stuff in the car, but if it wasn't done properly than that is the issue. No reason to change the cam IMO, unless you want to. Any capable tuner should be able to tune the car if everything with car is up to par.
There is a lot more info coming out in this thread than there was earlier. Thats why most people like myself jumped to the conclusion and put the blame on the shop because of the many who have had a bad experience with DRM.
There is a lot more info coming out in this thread than there was earlier. Thats why most people like myself jumped to the conclusion and put the blame on the shop because of the many who have had a bad experience with DRM.
Teching In
Joined: May 2006
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First of all, DMR tunes it conservatively when on the dyno so you probably got a little power to spare. Keeps him from blowing **** up like he's done in the past. Second, he's not a good A4 tuner and has had problems tuning them in the past. Trust me, I know many guys that have gone out there just to be disappointed and have heard from people who have worked for him about his LS tuning problems. HiTech tunes are good for peak hp but are horseshit for street manners. CJTunes and Adam's Speed Shop (A.S.S.), a friend of mine, have done a good job on my car for half the cost. They'll take the time to tune it right. A 45 min tune will be horseshit for street manners. Ask me about my HiTech tune. Anyways, come over to MNGMP.Org and see what the guys over there say. Not much different than here. If you want I can get you in touch with Adam and get him to tune the car. He got mine pushing 410 through a Dana 60 with 4.10's and 3500 stall and smaller cam than yours. With the size of your cam, you'll want a bigger stall. I'll be selling my TCI 3500 in a couple weeks when I get my new transmission with a 4k stall. Let me know if you're interested or have questions.
Name the cars that we have blown up in the past lets say 10 years????? My 300 dollar LS1 engine doesn't count, in my personal car. Even that was a good experience, we found why the former west coast owner of the car popped 4 (NON DRM problems at all) of them in very short order. Wiring is very important...... I bought as a roller.
A4 tranny tunes are hard without a lot of on the road tuning. Are you going to pay for the speeding ticket? The insurance increase? If that were to happen? How about driving around POS cars that some kid worked on in his parent's cold garage? Other times they are spotless installs, with everything hooked up right and things go smoothly.
The former employee part is pretty funny also. We are friendly to all but one former employee dating back to the early 80s. Burning a bridge for yourself is one thing, you just brunt many of them. That is pretty adult like. Let me guess that person had something to gain by talking crap??? Unreal you use a former employee against us on a open forum. By the way what is your real name anyways?
Good call on selling off your old parts. That's just what he needs
Randy
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Randy
PS Damn you are up early, heading to the NASA meeting down south?