1.8 roller rockers on a ls6 motor?
05-11-2010, 11:16 AM
#41
https://ls1tech.com/forums/5520537-post8.html
ill go with Tony Mamo on this subject. now he doesnt touch on gains or anything here, but obviously by his post, its neccessary to change springs and pushrods with these rockers. meaning its not just a 200 dollar bolt on and go.
ill go with Tony Mamo on this subject. now he doesnt touch on gains or anything here, but obviously by his post, its neccessary to change springs and pushrods with these rockers. meaning its not just a 200 dollar bolt on and go.
05-11-2010, 11:29 AM
#42
you just said it yourself. not only that but you contridicted yourself.
when you switch the rockers, you also have to change the springs and pushrods. (to do it right). thats the cost of a cam swap right there.
thats how i can say its not worth it.
people are spending 200+ dollars on the rocker arms, then around 200 on the springs and pushrods maybe more. for around 4-500 bucks, you can have a good cam swap.
its all fine and good if you consider spending 500 bucks for 6-10 hp and 10 -15 ftlbs, but i dont know what world your living on, but thats not worth it.
when you switch the rockers, you also have to change the springs and pushrods. (to do it right). thats the cost of a cam swap right there.
thats how i can say its not worth it.
people are spending 200+ dollars on the rocker arms, then around 200 on the springs and pushrods maybe more. for around 4-500 bucks, you can have a good cam swap.
its all fine and good if you consider spending 500 bucks for 6-10 hp and 10 -15 ftlbs, but i dont know what world your living on, but thats not worth it.
not every car enthusiast wants to tear into the engine, sorry if you dont like my opinion. Yes it's pricey, never argued that once. I asked for proof that this mod only produces 3-5hp like you posted earlier, but instead I get a reply that Im contradicting myself lol.
Last edited by kinglt-1; 05-11-2010 at 11:55 AM.
05-11-2010, 11:43 AM
#43
https://ls1tech.com/forums/5520537-post8.html
ill go with Tony Mamo on this subject. now he doesnt touch on gains or anything here, but obviously by his post, its neccessary to change springs and pushrods with these rockers. meaning its not just a 200 dollar bolt on and go.
ill go with Tony Mamo on this subject. now he doesnt touch on gains or anything here, but obviously by his post, its neccessary to change springs and pushrods with these rockers. meaning its not just a 200 dollar bolt on and go.
Last edited by kinglt-1; 05-11-2010 at 11:54 AM.
05-11-2010, 12:00 PM
#45
My point was that I would not spend that much money for a rocker swap, I would just swap a cam in. But again I am not everyone and some do not want to do a cam swap, wich makes this the next best option. Your taking my statements out of context and twisting them around. you knew what I meant anyways, must just love to argue lol!
05-11-2010, 12:08 PM
#46
My point was that I would not spend that much money for a rocker swap, I would just swap a cam in. But again I am not everyone and some do not want to do a cam swap, wich makes this the next best option. You take my statements out of context and twist them around. you knew what I meant anyways, you just love to argue lol!
point is, i dont see it a viable alternative to a cam swap, considering 8-10 hp or 30-40 hp for the same price....
and when it comes down to it, think about what 8-10 hp really is. you can run 3 back to back dyno pulls and have 3hp variance between the 3 pulls. in the big picture, 8-10 horse isint that big of a gain no matter how you size it.
if you throw the spare tire and jack out, that about equals the power in weight savings with going with these rockers. and what makes it even more pointless is changing out a perfectly good part for another perfectly good part in which you have to change out other perfectally good parts for little to no gain.
i dont mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, but i have my ways and enough education behind it (70k in high performance motorsports schooling to be exact) to argue with people. the actual gains, (not including change in conditions and dyno variance) are hardly worth the money and time invested.
not only that, but the skill required to set the valve train up correctly typically out runs the skill most people have.
05-11-2010, 12:48 PM
#47
again, your living in a fantasy world if you think 400 bucks is worth 8 or so hp. its not....
and no, its not similar to switching to an LS6 cam. switching to an LS6 cam increases duration lift and a whole lot more varaiables that make it more reliable and easier on the valvetrain.
and no, its not similar to switching to an LS6 cam. switching to an LS6 cam increases duration lift and a whole lot more varaiables that make it more reliable and easier on the valvetrain.
that $375 i spent on the rocker arms is def gonna get me more than 8hp and 17ft-lbs since that dyno was on a stock ls1 car and mine will have ls6 heads and full bolt-ons to compliment it. prob be closer to 12-15hp and 20ft-lbs.
05-11-2010, 12:56 PM
#48
fantasy world?? lol. when im putting on a set of 243 heads i got for $400 with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers, i dont have to do the whole valvespring swap that your talking about. secondly 1.85 rockers increase the duration about 3 or 4 degrees while the ls6 cam is about 6 or 7 so almost no difference there and the lift increase is about equal both ways as well.
that $375 i spent on the rocker arms is def gonna get me more than 8hp and 17ft-lbs since that dyno was on a stock ls1 car and mine will have ls6 heads and full bolt-ons to compliment it. prob be closer to 12-15hp and 20ft-lbs.
that $375 i spent on the rocker arms is def gonna get me more than 8hp and 17ft-lbs since that dyno was on a stock ls1 car and mine will have ls6 heads and full bolt-ons to compliment it. prob be closer to 12-15hp and 20ft-lbs.
05-11-2010, 01:05 PM
#49
fantasy world?? lol. when im putting on a set of 243 heads i got for $400 with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers, i dont have to do the whole valvespring swap that your talking about. secondly 1.85 rockers increase the duration about 3 or 4 degrees while the ls6 cam is about 6 or 7 so almost no difference there and the lift increase is about equal both ways as well.
that $375 i spent on the rocker arms is def gonna get me more than 8hp and 17ft-lbs since that dyno was on a stock ls1 car and mine will have ls6 heads and full bolt-ons to compliment it. prob be closer to 12-15hp and 20ft-lbs.
that $375 i spent on the rocker arms is def gonna get me more than 8hp and 17ft-lbs since that dyno was on a stock ls1 car and mine will have ls6 heads and full bolt-ons to compliment it. prob be closer to 12-15hp and 20ft-lbs.
tell me how 375 bucks is worth 8 hp....
and lets add your heads and LS6 cam....
12 to 15 horse for 775 bucks? how bout a tune? thats another 100 bucks at the least if your tuning it yourself.
almost 900 bucks for 12 to 15 horse.....i dont see your point....forgive my ignorance because i dont see the sense in dropping 900 bucks for 12 - 15 horse.
05-11-2010, 01:09 PM
#51
touche' salesman...lol
point is, i dont see it a viable alternative to a cam swap, considering 8-10 hp or 30-40 hp for the same price....
and when it comes down to it, think about what 8-10 hp really is. you can run 3 back to back dyno pulls and have 3hp variance between the 3 pulls. in the big picture, 8-10 horse isint that big of a gain no matter how you size it.
if you throw the spare tire and jack out, that about equals the power in weight savings with going with these rockers. and what makes it even more pointless is changing out a perfectly good part for another perfectly good part in which you have to change out other perfectally good parts for little to no gain.
i dont mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, but i have my ways and enough education behind it (70k in high performance motorsports schooling to be exact) to argue with people. the actual gains, (not including change in conditions and dyno variance) are hardly worth the money and time invested.
not only that, but the skill required to set the valve train up correctly typically out runs the skill most people have.
point is, i dont see it a viable alternative to a cam swap, considering 8-10 hp or 30-40 hp for the same price....
and when it comes down to it, think about what 8-10 hp really is. you can run 3 back to back dyno pulls and have 3hp variance between the 3 pulls. in the big picture, 8-10 horse isint that big of a gain no matter how you size it.
if you throw the spare tire and jack out, that about equals the power in weight savings with going with these rockers. and what makes it even more pointless is changing out a perfectly good part for another perfectly good part in which you have to change out other perfectally good parts for little to no gain.
i dont mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, but i have my ways and enough education behind it (70k in high performance motorsports schooling to be exact) to argue with people. the actual gains, (not including change in conditions and dyno variance) are hardly worth the money and time invested.
not only that, but the skill required to set the valve train up correctly typically out runs the skill most people have.
05-11-2010, 01:15 PM
#52
were not talking about adding heads or anything else. were talking about the gains from the rockers alone. and your back to about 8 or so. so your failing at proving anything to me.
tell me how 375 bucks is worth 8 hp....
and lets add your heads and LS6 cam....
12 to 15 horse for 775 bucks? how bout a tune? thats another 100 bucks at the least if your tuning it yourself.
almost 900 bucks for 12 to 15 horse.....i dont see your point....forgive my ignorance because i dont see the sense in dropping 900 bucks for 12 - 15 horse.
tell me how 375 bucks is worth 8 hp....
and lets add your heads and LS6 cam....
12 to 15 horse for 775 bucks? how bout a tune? thats another 100 bucks at the least if your tuning it yourself.
almost 900 bucks for 12 to 15 horse.....i dont see your point....forgive my ignorance because i dont see the sense in dropping 900 bucks for 12 - 15 horse.
05-11-2010, 01:17 PM
#53
Ha ha im a salesman good one... where did that 70k performance motorsports schooling get you if you dont mind me asking? Do you work on these cars for a living? Ok great, you dont think rockers are a good mod... some people do. Im not going to tell people thier ignorant for what they want out of thier setup. So when you get nominated for being the ls1 know-all of ls1tech, let us know ok...then we might actually give two *****!
common sense.
ignorant people pay more for less...
i know its not a good gain, as a matter of fact, (and the only reason i havent brought this up is because i dont have the dynosheet to prove it) but i got into a similar argument with my friend about this.
he said, and i quote "i got comp cams 1.6 roller rockers for my LT1, i will pick up 30 RWHP, thats what it says on comp's website..." ok, ill play along.
so we took his car to the dyno at school, ran it, then installed the rockers, ran it again...he gained a whopping 6 hp at the wheels.
i dont recall how much he spent on them, but regardless, its not worth the money spent.
either way you stack it, spending more for less is just ignorant. period. im perfectally happy with my 1.7 rockers and i can garuntee all day long that i wont lose any races because i didnt spend 400 bucks on 1.8 rockers.
05-11-2010, 01:19 PM
#54
Its worth it to the guys who wants to buy it. Its something any joe can install themselves so they dont have to pay any extra either.
Plus the SLP rockers have the trunion upgrade already done to them. Thats worth $130-$175 easy.
Your too opinionated on this, some people like and think its worth while. Some people do not. If you were correct SLP would stop selling them, because no one would buy them.
I personally would rather have the cam I want in the first place with a lower rocker ratio, but adding more ratio via rocker arms isn't always terrible thing.
Plus the SLP rockers have the trunion upgrade already done to them. Thats worth $130-$175 easy.
Your too opinionated on this, some people like and think its worth while. Some people do not. If you were correct SLP would stop selling them, because no one would buy them.
I personally would rather have the cam I want in the first place with a lower rocker ratio, but adding more ratio via rocker arms isn't always terrible thing.
05-11-2010, 01:22 PM
#55
do you know how to add? the rockers are going to net him 8-12whp, the 243 heads are worth 15whp in stock form over the 241's, the ls6 cam is worth 10-15whp over the ls1 cam. thats about 30-40whp gain for 775 bucks with 0 loss of driviability or mileage, wich seems decent to me. A mail order tune for 125 bucks could get that setup dialed in... Again all you want to do is argue in every thread you step in and call people ignorant. why? Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside calling people out teh internet?
that still doesnt change the fact that 360 or whatever is a retarted amount of money for 8-12 hp.
if they were cheaper and didnt require supporting mods like springs and pushrods, it might be a worthwhile mod. but its not.
05-11-2010, 01:26 PM
#56
Its worth it to the guys who wants to buy it. Its something any joe can install themselves so they dont have to pay any extra either.
Plus the SLP rockers have the trunion upgrade already done to them. Thats worth $130-$175 easy.
Your too opinionated on this, some people like and think its worth while. Some people do not. If you were correct SLP would stop selling them, because no one would buy them.
I personally would rather have the cam I want in the first place with a lower rocker ratio, but adding more ratio via rocker arms isn't always terrible thing.
Plus the SLP rockers have the trunion upgrade already done to them. Thats worth $130-$175 easy.
Your too opinionated on this, some people like and think its worth while. Some people do not. If you were correct SLP would stop selling them, because no one would buy them.
I personally would rather have the cam I want in the first place with a lower rocker ratio, but adding more ratio via rocker arms isn't always terrible thing.
05-11-2010, 01:31 PM
#57
do you know how to add? the rockers are going to net him 8-12whp, the 243 heads are worth 15whp in stock form over the 241's, the ls6 cam is worth 10-15whp over the ls1 cam. thats about 30-40whp gain for 775 bucks with 0 loss of driviability or mileage, wich seems decent to me. A mail order tune for 125 bucks could get that setup dialed in... Again all you want to do is argue in every thread you step in and call people ignorant. why? Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside calling people out teh internet?
05-11-2010, 01:37 PM
#58
Adding hp numbers like this is like adding every hp claim of boltons and saying that you netted 100 hp just from bolt ons that is ridiculous specially with out a dyno sheet am sure the numbers will be very different. You have drive train parasitism, you have altitude, you have DA you have the dyno out put, you have fuel, you have timing, etc you have so many mitigating factors I will say this let the guy do what he is going to do and post his base line hp dyno sheet and then his new hp dyno sheet and everyone will see if the $700+ is worth the hp gain.
05-11-2010, 01:44 PM
#59
these are gains that have been proven time after time on a "cookie cutter" setup like stated. How many guys out there have swapped 243 heads and added a ls6 camshaft in the past and posted dyno graphs. Probably in the 1000's. Avg. gains are 25-30whp, not including rockers, so why the hell are you stepping in to argue this? your right, this **** is getting rediculous.
05-11-2010, 01:46 PM
#60
every car is different no matter what many hp gain claims are done under controlled situations in many shops and you can't apply these to every single build. Come on you seem like a smart guy, don't get caught up in an emotional argument and look at it for what it is , hp claims made by a company trying to sell you something and true world hp gains in an average joes car.