Low-End Torque F-body 98-02
06-21-2010, 09:44 AM
#21
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dont waste your time with it the difference is tiny. If anything the 01-02 car maybe a tad bit faster although theres no hard proof for this. If you are going to change a cam do something worth while even an ls6 cam is better than any ls1 cam and even that is debatable on whether or not its worth it. Imo the smallest cam for these cars should be a 220/220 ideally a 224/224 or 228/228 are the most street friendly.
06-21-2010, 06:29 PM
#23
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So what cam would be good for my setup, which I posted earlier?
Keep in mind I am looking for low-end torque and a wide power band with no loss in top end power from a stock 98 LS1 F-body.
By the way, the car is M6.
Keep in mind I am looking for low-end torque and a wide power band with no loss in top end power from a stock 98 LS1 F-body.
By the way, the car is M6.
06-21-2010, 07:14 PM
#24
I dont understand how an aftermarket cam can give more low end torque than a factory cam. Cams trade low end torque for upper rpm horsepower. Can you elaborate on a cam that will show such gains? That would be a great street cam although you would be dissappointed when you dynod less.
06-24-2010, 01:24 PM
#26
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What RPM range do you consider 'low-end'? Off-idle? Up to 3500 RPM? Judging by the '455' in your name, you are wanting some big-block low-end from your 346, which is not possible without something like a positive displacement roots style blower. I would go with a TR220 cam if I were you, it will provide power increases from 1500-6500 RPM over the stock cam. You could also have your heads milled for more compression which will increase torque across the RPM band.
You could also build a 400+ ci stroker and make big low-end, but that will be $$$
You could also build a 400+ ci stroker and make big low-end, but that will be $$$
Last edited by MikeG; 06-24-2010 at 01:54 PM.
06-24-2010, 01:57 PM
#27
If im not mistaken, the 01-02s got the 6.0 truck cam, and LS6 intake manifold.
FWIW, with nothing more than a lid, loudmouth, built T56, 3.73s and dyno tune, our old 02 WS.6 made 351rwhp/372rwtq. Some would think it is just a happy dyno, but our 00 only made about 8 more HP than it did on a mustang dyno. The 00 was on the dyno right before the 02 was tuned and made those numbers.
Your best bet is to get a custom grind cam, for EXACTLY what you want. Off the shelf grinds are great cams (I have the TSP 224R in my 01, and TSP 231/237 in our 00) But a custom grind will give you exactly what your looking for. More often than not, they cost about the same, but will be suited to what you need.
FWIW, with nothing more than a lid, loudmouth, built T56, 3.73s and dyno tune, our old 02 WS.6 made 351rwhp/372rwtq. Some would think it is just a happy dyno, but our 00 only made about 8 more HP than it did on a mustang dyno. The 00 was on the dyno right before the 02 was tuned and made those numbers.
Your best bet is to get a custom grind cam, for EXACTLY what you want. Off the shelf grinds are great cams (I have the TSP 224R in my 01, and TSP 231/237 in our 00) But a custom grind will give you exactly what your looking for. More often than not, they cost about the same, but will be suited to what you need.
06-24-2010, 03:41 PM
#28
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A custom grind? How do I go about getting one of those?
BTW, when I say low-end I mean off idle up. Real low-end.
Good catch on the goatman455, I do also own a GTO 69 w/ a 455, I don't expect 455 low-end torque.
What I am really looking for is a really flat broad torque band. It can peak and drop a bit but I want good area under the curve.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Edit:So, NVR, how did the 00 compare to the 01 stock? Could you feel a difference in low-rpm power with the truck cam? Did you notice anything different?
BTW, when I say low-end I mean off idle up. Real low-end.
Good catch on the goatman455, I do also own a GTO 69 w/ a 455, I don't expect 455 low-end torque.
What I am really looking for is a really flat broad torque band. It can peak and drop a bit but I want good area under the curve.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Edit:So, NVR, how did the 00 compare to the 01 stock? Could you feel a difference in low-rpm power with the truck cam? Did you notice anything different?
Last edited by Goatman455; 06-24-2010 at 03:50 PM.
06-24-2010, 05:24 PM
#30
contact Patrick-G or Geoff at EPS to spec you a great custom cam.for good low end power it a combination of narrow LSA and a advanced ICL and smaller duration numbers.consider a ed curtis street sweeper cam or a thunder racing tr224 also.or look at comp LSr54-455-11 ,215/223-112lsa/107icl.
06-25-2010, 04:00 PM
#32
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I know some of the guys on here are saying that their 98-00 beat an 01-02 stock for stock. But, there are too many variables to consider. Same weight, same gearing, same tires, same drivers, usually means the 01-02 has a slight edge over the others as far as dyno numbers and track times stock for stock. The 98-00s were not made faster/quicker in ANY way over the 01 - 02s, mostly the other way around. The differences are negligible. Look elsewhere for cams if you're going to do all that work. I'd say a nice 224 with gears will give you what you need imo.
In other words: these cars in stock form are all close and there is only a very slight advantage going to the 01-02 cars (which incidently can be offset by lighter weight (less factory options), gearing, and traction (245 vs. 275 tires).
OP-why do you want more low end thrust? Light to light racing? Have you considered leaving your cam alone and going with gears etc? It just seems like a waste of time to me to go to all the trouble of doing a cam and only swapping in another ls1 cam, with no heads to boot!
In other words: these cars in stock form are all close and there is only a very slight advantage going to the 01-02 cars (which incidently can be offset by lighter weight (less factory options), gearing, and traction (245 vs. 275 tires).
OP-why do you want more low end thrust? Light to light racing? Have you considered leaving your cam alone and going with gears etc? It just seems like a waste of time to me to go to all the trouble of doing a cam and only swapping in another ls1 cam, with no heads to boot!
06-26-2010, 03:12 PM
#34
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I dont understand how an aftermarket cam can give more low end torque than a factory cam. Cams trade low end torque for upper rpm horsepower. Can you elaborate on a cam that will show such gains? That would be a great street cam although you would be dissappointed when you dynod less.
Read - https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...heads-cam.html and https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...am-change.html to see more of what I mean.
If you don't feel like reading either, just follow his quote here:
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Because I had to wait until 5000 rpm before my car really started to take off. Now it bolts forward at 2000 rpm. I do not expect to lose much if any power upstairs. So basically I've maximized the area under the curve by chosing valve events that best compliment the AFR heads and the runner length of the FAST 90/90 intake. The big duration wide LSA combination was a poor combination in my car. It was lazy. Basically a dog off the line.
To maximize the area under the curve within the architecture of our intakes and heads, it's a smart idea to work intake valve closing points and dynamic compression to your best advantage.
And to sum up what you quoted, yes HP is what matters. Since I have LOTS more toque between 2000-4000 rpm, that also means I have LOTS more horsepower in that range!
To maximize the area under the curve within the architecture of our intakes and heads, it's a smart idea to work intake valve closing points and dynamic compression to your best advantage.
And to sum up what you quoted, yes HP is what matters. Since I have LOTS more toque between 2000-4000 rpm, that also means I have LOTS more horsepower in that range!
06-26-2010, 03:14 PM
#35
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I have 4.10 gears, I just want a nice wide power band, I figured heads/cam is going to be very $$$$$$. Though I would consider doing both.
If anything I think I would be more likely to go LS6 intake w/ Cam.
For me, low-end torque is king. Low-end torque cars feel the most powerful when driving around town because you are in your powerband more.
That said, after experiencing the pull of the LS1 up high, I definitely don't want to lose that (the mid/upper RPM pull is incredible for a stock OHV motor, just incredible.)
The key for me is if I can swap a cam and gain more power across the board, why not?
If anything I think I would be more likely to go LS6 intake w/ Cam.
For me, low-end torque is king. Low-end torque cars feel the most powerful when driving around town because you are in your powerband more.
That said, after experiencing the pull of the LS1 up high, I definitely don't want to lose that (the mid/upper RPM pull is incredible for a stock OHV motor, just incredible.)
The key for me is if I can swap a cam and gain more power across the board, why not?
