450 hp N/A. Suggestions?
My buddies 02 Hawk made 448/434 with stock bottom end. He has Lid, stock throttle body, LS6 intake, untouched AFR 205s, AFR 6016 cam(i believe), pacesetters, TSP true duals, in an M6 with 410s. Tuned in Speed Density. I dont believe it was a happy dyno either, since our car only made about 7hp more on it, than it did on a mustang dyno.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Pinson, Alabama
My buddies 02 Hawk made 448/434 with stock bottom end. He has Lid, stock throttle body, LS6 intake, untouched AFR 205s, AFR 6016 cam(i believe), pacesetters, TSP true duals, in an M6 with 410s. Tuned in Speed Density. I dont believe it was a happy dyno either, since our car only made about 7hp more on it, than it did on a mustang dyno.
the 450 rwhp won't be the problem, it will be the 450 rwtq which i am pretty sure you will not get. maybe 420 but realistically that is above par on a stock cube mill. some get alittle over that but most have huge cams that don't peak till 6600 rpm or so and peak tq is around 5200-5300. take a look in the dyno section and see how the graphs look.and also remember some dynos give very optimistic results.
throw on a procharger or vortech on that stock motor and set it on low boost and 450/450 will be very easy and mild and very dependable at that hp level. if fi is an option anyways.
throw on a procharger or vortech on that stock motor and set it on low boost and 450/450 will be very easy and mild and very dependable at that hp level. if fi is an option anyways.
How about this for a budget setup, $450 invested in heads, $180 ebay headers, $30 cutout, $300 fast 78 ported to 85mm, $180 85mm than ported. Honestly the worst hp / $$ was probably the underdrive but I didn't have anything else left. Really the most important thing is getting a properly specced cam for what you want out of your car. Mine was specced for a torquey daily driver, but my under curve power blows almost anything you see on this site out of the water.
375 rwtq @ 3000 rpm and 399 @ 3800 rpm, yet the custom BRE 224 cam pulls to almost 7000 rpm with out falling on its face. It's all in the proper valve events / combo.
Bolt ons vs heads / cam ls6 vs fast + underdrive
147 mph = 6800 rpm
375 rwtq @ 3000 rpm and 399 @ 3800 rpm, yet the custom BRE 224 cam pulls to almost 7000 rpm with out falling on its face. It's all in the proper valve events / combo.
Bolt ons vs heads / cam ls6 vs fast + underdrive
147 mph = 6800 rpm
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Pinson, Alabama
How about this for a budget setup, $450 invested in heads, $180 ebay headers, $30 cutout, $300 fast 78 ported to 85mm, $180 85mm than ported. Honestly the worst hp / $$ was probably the underdrive but I didn't have anything else left. Really the most important thing is getting a properly specced cam for what you want out of your car. Mine was specced for a torquey daily driver, but my under curve power blows almost anything you see on this site out of the water.
375 rwtq @ 3000 rpm and 399 @ 3800 rpm, yet the custom BRE 224 cam pulls to almost 7000 rpm with out falling on its face. It's all in the proper valve events / combo.
Bolt ons vs heads / cam ls6 vs fast + underdrive
147 mph = 6800 rpm
375 rwtq @ 3000 rpm and 399 @ 3800 rpm, yet the custom BRE 224 cam pulls to almost 7000 rpm with out falling on its face. It's all in the proper valve events / combo.
Bolt ons vs heads / cam ls6 vs fast + underdrive
147 mph = 6800 rpm
All the info you need is in my signature link. That was dyno'd through the 10 bolt with 3.42's. I think I'd only lose 5-10 rwhp through this 9". Check out this link on rear end hp loss info, 9"'s don't rob as much as people think https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...high-tech.html
450/450 M6
AZPS03(Ed Curtis)
New lifters
New PR
New oil pump
FAST 90/90
1 7/8 long tubes
X pipe
42# injectors
AFR 215CC or 243 stage 1 set up from TEA/AI or any reputable shop
Walboro 255 pump
Nothing mild about that and you should be there all day. your looking about 4k in parts and if you don't do it yourself about 1500 for labor and about 350-500 depending on who tunes your car.
This set up should pull hard from about 2.5k rpm all the way to 7K
AZPS03(Ed Curtis)
New lifters
New PR
New oil pump
FAST 90/90
1 7/8 long tubes
X pipe
42# injectors
AFR 215CC or 243 stage 1 set up from TEA/AI or any reputable shop
Walboro 255 pump
Nothing mild about that and you should be there all day. your looking about 4k in parts and if you don't do it yourself about 1500 for labor and about 350-500 depending on who tunes your car.
This set up should pull hard from about 2.5k rpm all the way to 7K
Over the past few years of owning a lt1 and now a LS6.
i've learned you cant realy look to deep into the dyno numbers unless your comparing gains over stock on the same dyno.
All the dynos around the world are calibrated slightly diffrent, so you need to look at the numbers with a grain of salt.
On one dyno you might make 425whp, and on another dyno the car could make 450.
You really have to decide what you want to spend, how important driveability is and go from there.
i've learned you cant realy look to deep into the dyno numbers unless your comparing gains over stock on the same dyno.
All the dynos around the world are calibrated slightly diffrent, so you need to look at the numbers with a grain of salt.
On one dyno you might make 425whp, and on another dyno the car could make 450.
You really have to decide what you want to spend, how important driveability is and go from there.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Pinson, Alabama
This. I have this cam, but with a ls6 manifold, not the greatest exhaust, and stock 243 heads and I made 423/382 at the wheels. That was through heavy 18" wheels and with 4.10 gears. 450 hp is not a hard feat for a 346. 450 torque though...is much harder, especially N/A.
ed curtis cam...
AZPS03(Ed Curtis)
call VaSpeed or give Ed a call himself, those guys know what they are talking about and can help you get your horsepower. If the combo aint right, it will never reach your goals or do what you want. Plus youll want someone who knows how to tune these real good to get every last pony out.
AZPS03(Ed Curtis)
call VaSpeed or give Ed a call himself, those guys know what they are talking about and can help you get your horsepower. If the combo aint right, it will never reach your goals or do what you want. Plus youll want someone who knows how to tune these real good to get every last pony out.
Over the past few years of owning a lt1 and now a LS6.
i've learned you cant realy look to deep into the dyno numbers unless your comparing gains over stock on the same dyno.
All the dynos around the world are calibrated slightly diffrent, so you need to look at the numbers with a grain of salt.
On one dyno you might make 425whp, and on another dyno the car could make 450.
You really have to decide what you want to spend, how important driveability is and go from there.
i've learned you cant realy look to deep into the dyno numbers unless your comparing gains over stock on the same dyno.
All the dynos around the world are calibrated slightly diffrent, so you need to look at the numbers with a grain of salt.
On one dyno you might make 425whp, and on another dyno the car could make 450.
You really have to decide what you want to spend, how important driveability is and go from there.
Very true, hence why I baselined my car on the same dyno. It wasn't a strong bolt on car like some people have. Gains of 112 rwhp and 80 rwtq over my bolt on baseline with a simple optimized 243 head / 224 cam setup is nothing to sneeze at. What I feel is most impressive is gaining 50 ftlbs @ 3000 rpm and 71 ft lbs @ 3800 rpm. You're average slap it together combo won't run like this. It's easy to make high hp with rpm, not as easy to make big torque gains. Since hp is a function of torque and rpm.
Very true, hence why I baselined my car on the same dyno. It wasn't a strong bolt on car like some people have. Gains of 112 rwhp and 80 rwtq over my bolt on baseline with a simple optimized 243 head / 224 cam setup is nothing to sneeze at. What I feel is most impressive is gaining 50 ftlbs @ 3000 rpm and 71 ft lbs @ 3800 rpm. You're average slap it together combo won't run like this. It's easy to make high hp with rpm, not as easy to make big torque gains. Since hp is a function of torque and rpm.
Very true, hence why I baselined my car on the same dyno. It wasn't a strong bolt on car like some people have. Gains of 112 rwhp and 80 rwtq over my bolt on baseline with a simple optimized 243 head / 224 cam setup is nothing to sneeze at. What I feel is most impressive is gaining 50 ftlbs @ 3000 rpm and 71 ft lbs @ 3800 rpm. You're average slap it together combo won't run like this. It's easy to make high hp with rpm, not as easy to make big torque gains. Since hp is a function of torque and rpm.
I'm not sure, my car had 853s. I'd say my 62 cc (11:1) 243 heads with my 5 angle valve job are worth 30-40 rwhp / 20-30 rwtq over a set of stock 241's. It's not about just 1 piece of the puzzle. I have a properly matched setup where I spent the time to degree the cam in perfectly to the valve events it was specced out. Not to mention my entire valve train was specced out by a professional for long time durability and valve train stability. I'm running light weight PAC 1518 single beehives and some massive p-rods 
Contoured and radiused everything real nice on my fast 78 that I opened to 85mm (15 hours porting). I made sure the bottom piece of the fast was also perfectly port matched to the heads, which it was way off on a few ports... Wonder how many people just slap their fast on and don't check port alignment? I sold my LS6 intake for $300 and bought the fast 78 for $300 so it didn't cost me anything but time.
My dad had all the sorts of hand grinding valve job equipment. I spent a good 20 + hours here cutting and resharpening every stone by hand trying to get the perfect width and angles on my valve seats. I'll honestly never do that again but it was well worth it. I recut every surface on the valves to ensure concentricity and a good seal (the oem valve job sucks huge). I also hand lapped every valve in for a perfect seal and hand blended the top cut into the cylinder heads (important transition for airflow). With the help from BRE I was able to use propiertary valve angles that really paid off.
Contoured and radiused everything real nice on my fast 78 that I opened to 85mm (15 hours porting). I made sure the bottom piece of the fast was also perfectly port matched to the heads, which it was way off on a few ports... Wonder how many people just slap their fast on and don't check port alignment? I sold my LS6 intake for $300 and bought the fast 78 for $300 so it didn't cost me anything but time.My dad had all the sorts of hand grinding valve job equipment. I spent a good 20 + hours here cutting and resharpening every stone by hand trying to get the perfect width and angles on my valve seats. I'll honestly never do that again but it was well worth it. I recut every surface on the valves to ensure concentricity and a good seal (the oem valve job sucks huge). I also hand lapped every valve in for a perfect seal and hand blended the top cut into the cylinder heads (important transition for airflow). With the help from BRE I was able to use propiertary valve angles that really paid off.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
From: Gilroy, CA
yeah i want to make about 450rwhp to 500rwhp so this is a good thread i learnd alot and good luck with your mods im getting an eps cam in the next couple of weeks should put out good numbers then!
I'm not sure, my car had 853s. I'd say my 62 cc (11:1) 243 heads with my 5 angle valve job are worth 30-40 rwhp / 20-30 rwtq over a set of stock 241's. It's not about just 1 piece of the puzzle. I have a properly matched setup where I spent the time to degree the cam in perfectly to the valve events it was specced out. Not to mention my entire valve train was specced out by a professional for long time durability and valve train stability. I'm running light weight PAC 1518 single beehives and some massive p-rods Contoured and radiused everything real nice on my fast 78 that I opened to 85mm (15 hours porting). I made sure the bottom piece of the fast was also perfectly port matched to the heads, which it was way off on a few ports... Wonder how many people just slap their fast on and don't check port alignment? I sold my LS6 intake for $300 and bought the fast 78 for $300 so it didn't cost me anything but time.
My dad had all the sorts of hand grinding valve job equipment. I spent a good 20 + hours here cutting and resharpening every stone by hand trying to get the perfect width and angles on my valve seats. I'll honestly never do that again but it was well worth it. I recut every surface on the valves to ensure concentricity and a good seal (the oem valve job sucks huge). I also hand lapped every valve in for a perfect seal and hand blended the top cut into the cylinder heads (important transition for airflow). With the help from BRE I was able to use propiertary valve angles that really paid off.
Contoured and radiused everything real nice on my fast 78 that I opened to 85mm (15 hours porting). I made sure the bottom piece of the fast was also perfectly port matched to the heads, which it was way off on a few ports... Wonder how many people just slap their fast on and don't check port alignment? I sold my LS6 intake for $300 and bought the fast 78 for $300 so it didn't cost me anything but time.My dad had all the sorts of hand grinding valve job equipment. I spent a good 20 + hours here cutting and resharpening every stone by hand trying to get the perfect width and angles on my valve seats. I'll honestly never do that again but it was well worth it. I recut every surface on the valves to ensure concentricity and a good seal (the oem valve job sucks huge). I also hand lapped every valve in for a perfect seal and hand blended the top cut into the cylinder heads (important transition for airflow). With the help from BRE I was able to use propiertary valve angles that really paid off.
Why didnt you port the 243?? Your putting out some good numbers but man if you would have done a full race port you probly be real close to about 460rwhp i would think.. I might get some 243 but trying to get my hands on some prc ls6 heads
Well the last set of heads I ported took me well over 50 hours to port. After spending 20+ hours on the valve job there was no way I was going to port the heads. I've considered milling the heads, porting them and going with a larger cam. I'm sure I could hit 480 + rwhp no problem. But all the time involved is not worth making an extra 30-50 rwhp to me. I have other plans 
