Which PP head for me??
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Charleston SC
Which PP head for me?? I'm looking to add a h/c package from TSP to my car and I've been talking to them as well as Terry (?) from Patriot Performance and I've almost got my selection narrowed down.
This is where I'm at:
I'm going to go with the TSP 231/237 cam and Stage 2 LS6 heads. I'm stuck between the 59cc and the 64cc combustion chambers though. I'm NOT going to run Nitrous through this setup and I plan on changing from mac's to LT's as well.
Which head would you guys reccomend and why??
thanks
This is where I'm at:
I'm going to go with the TSP 231/237 cam and Stage 2 LS6 heads. I'm stuck between the 59cc and the 64cc combustion chambers though. I'm NOT going to run Nitrous through this setup and I plan on changing from mac's to LT's as well.
Which head would you guys reccomend and why??
thanks
personally id recommend the S2 5.3 heads over the ls6 style heads right now...only because nobody has put up huge #'s with those heads over the 5.3's yet...with that cam and all the bolt on's you should still be able to hit 430-440 at the wheels and save yourself a few hundred in the process.
lata
Bill
lata
Bill
Originally Posted by foff667
personally id recommend the S2 5.3 heads over the ls6 style heads right now...only because nobody has put up huge #'s with those heads over the 5.3's yet...with that cam and all the bolt on's you should still be able to hit 430-440 at the wheels and save yourself a few hundred in the process.
lata
Bill
lata
Bill
Except for Gomer who went from 5.3s to LS6s using a TSP 231/237. Im sure he will chime in soon he was at 450 hp. Heres his dyno graph.
Im not sure what combo his old numbers were he will have to fill you in on that.
yet there are a bunch of guys running with the 5.3's and those heads putting up 440 ask tsp about that theyve install and dynoed a bunch of them into the 440 range.
lata
Bill
lata
Bill
Originally Posted by foff667
yet there are a bunch of guys running with the 5.3's and those heads putting up 440 ask tsp about that theyve install and dynoed a bunch of them into the 440 range.
lata
Bill
lata
Bill
THe only 440+ cars I have seen were with the 6.0/ls6 style heads. I would pick those up if you are looking for max gains. There maby 5.3 headed cars making those #`s and just not posting it anywhere but I can only go by what I have seen posted
6 months ago tsp did a dyno with a Z that had hooker LT's TSP ported TB, ls6 intake, TSP lid, 231/237 cam, S2 5.3 heads & asp pulley and did 441rwhp, 401tq they got flamed pretty bad back then and have since had a few other cars in that range...im sure at some point they will chime in...dont get me wrong the ls6 heads im sure are good but still not proving to be worth $400 extra in my eyes.
lata
bill
lata
bill
Originally Posted by maddboost
Except for Gomer who went from 5.3s to LS6s using a TSP 231/237. Im sure he will chime in soon he was at 450 hp. Heres his dyno graph.
Im not sure what combo his old numbers were he will have to fill you in on that.
Im not sure what combo his old numbers were he will have to fill you in on that.
Trending Topics
so there ya have it 10hp and 2ft lbs...but keep in mind i think gomer still has just the mail tune from tsp so he'd probably gain some more with a custom tune...IMO it aint worth the extra cash but thats me.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?
Pouria Savadkouei
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo Even if they are only worth 10 rwhp where are you going to get that 10 hp later? 500 dollar water pump? a 900 lsx intake? once you have all the mods it is not that easy to grab an extra 10 hp. Plus even if you do those other mods to get extra hp you still could have 10 more by getting the ls6 style head in thefirst place. But thats just my opinion.
Originally Posted by offaxis
Even if they are only worth 10 rwhp where are you going to get that 10 hp later? 500 dollar water pump? a 900 lsx intake? once you have all the mods it is not that easy to grab an extra 10 hp. Plus even if you do those other mods to get extra hp you still could have 10 more by getting the ls6 style head in thefirst place. But thats just my opinion.
I would do almost anything to get an extra 15rwhp right now... 
The Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads make some excellent power. The 59cc combustion chamber will net right at 11.1:1 CR vs. the 64cc chamber that will put you in the viscinity of 10.5:1 CR. If you have access to 93 octane pump gas, then you will be fine with some good tuning with the 59cc chambers. I ran 11.1:1 CR on my heads/cam SS on 92 pump gas with no problems. There's no doubt that the stage II 5.3L cylinder heads put down some great power, especially for the $1295 price tag! If you are going for a max-effort setup, the LS6-style cylinder heads will be worth 5-10 RWHP more (depending on other mods) with stock cubes. The LS6-style heads also give you a LOT more growing room down the road should you ever decide to build a larger cid engine. The 5.3L heads work great on a stock-cid setup, but they will become a limiting factor with added cubes. The LS6-style heads will give you plenty of growing room. One of the guys on the Corvette board put down 467 RWHP with the 231/237, Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads, and all of the other appropriate bolt-ons. As mentioned, it does get harder and harder to get an extra 10 HP when you've performed every other modification.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
__________________
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Charleston SC
Originally Posted by Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.
The Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads make some excellent power. The 59cc combustion chamber will net right at 11.1:1 CR vs. the 64cc chamber that will put you in the viscinity of 10.5:1 CR. If you have access to 93 octane pump gas, then you will be fine with some good tuning with the 59cc chambers. I ran 11.1:1 CR on my heads/cam SS on 92 pump gas with no problems. There's no doubt that the stage II 5.3L cylinder heads put down some great power, especially for the $1295 price tag! If you are going for a max-effort setup, the LS6-style cylinder heads will be worth 5-10 RWHP more (depending on other mods) with stock cubes. The LS6-style heads also give you a LOT more growing room down the road should you ever decide to build a larger cid engine. The 5.3L heads work great on a stock-cid setup, but they will become a limiting factor with added cubes. The LS6-style heads will give you plenty of growing room. One of the guys on the Corvette board put down 467 RWHP with the 231/237, Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads, and all of the other appropriate bolt-ons. As mentioned, it does get harder and harder to get an extra 10 HP when you've performed every other modification.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Bigger cubes... like a stroker kit... hmmm that might be in the future after everything else since that's like 4k
Thanks everyone for the great replies especially Trevor. You guys are great there at TSP.
PLease forgive my ignorance but I'm still a little cloudy about the 59 v/s 64 cc. I know that the 59 cc will raise compression and I"m pretty sure that's a good thing since it means more power. I'm just wondering why they offer the multiple sizes other than to confuse the hell out of me
Originally Posted by offaxis
Even if they are only worth 10 rwhp where are you going to get that 10 hp later? 500 dollar water pump? a 900 lsx intake? once you have all the mods it is not that easy to grab an extra 10 hp. Plus even if you do those other mods to get extra hp you still could have 10 more by getting the ls6 style head in thefirst place. But thats just my opinion.
Rice Eater 316 - Patriot offers multiple chamber sizes on their LS6-style cylinder heads so consumers can have a great head, no matter their setup. If you're looking to build a turbo or supercharged engine, you can go with the 72cc chamber to lower compression. If you're looking to raise compression just a few tenths of a point, then the 64cc chamber will work great. And, if you're looking for the most power possible N/A while still wanting to run pump gas, then the 59cc chamber is best. Patriot Performance is the only cylinder head company that allows you to pick your combustion chamber size without ever having to mill the cylinder heads! When you cut a cylinder head, it reduces your piston-to-valve clearance. For instance, you can net 11.1:1 CR with a set of 5.3L cylinder heads if you shave them .030". However, that's .030" lost for p-to-v clearance, so it will limit you when picking a camshaft for your setup. You'd have to cut valve reliefs in your pistons to run a cam like the TSP 231/237. With the Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads, you can run 11+:1 compression without reducing your piston-to-valve clearance.
Let me know if you have any other questions. We're always more than happy to help with any questions that you may have.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Let me know if you have any other questions. We're always more than happy to help with any questions that you may have.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
__________________
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: McKinney Texas
Originally Posted by Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.
Rice Eater 316 - Patriot offers multiple chamber sizes on their LS6-style cylinder heads so consumers can have a great head, no matter their setup. If you're looking to build a turbo or supercharged engine, you can go with the 72cc chamber to lower compression. If you're looking to raise compression just a few tenths of a point, then the 64cc chamber will work great. And, if you're looking for the most power possible N/A while still wanting to run pump gas, then the 59cc chamber is best. Patriot Performance is the only cylinder head company that allows you to pick your combustion chamber size without ever having to mill the cylinder heads! When you cut a cylinder head, it reduces your piston-to-valve clearance. For instance, you can net 11.1:1 CR with a set of 5.3L cylinder heads if you shave them .030". However, that's .030" lost for p-to-v clearance, so it will limit you when picking a camshaft for your setup. You'd have to cut valve reliefs in your pistons to run a cam like the TSP 231/237. With the Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads, you can run 11+:1 compression without reducing your piston-to-valve clearance.
Let me know if you have any other questions. We're always more than happy to help with any questions that you may have.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Let me know if you have any other questions. We're always more than happy to help with any questions that you may have.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Also .. with the 5.3 heads, do you need different valve covers and what is the normal compression with the 5.3 heads? How are the PP Stage II LS1 heads (5.7)?
thanks,
Crowley
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Charleston SC
Originally Posted by Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.
Rice Eater 316 - Patriot offers multiple chamber sizes on their LS6-style cylinder heads so consumers can have a great head, no matter their setup. If you're looking to build a turbo or supercharged engine, you can go with the 72cc chamber to lower compression. If you're looking to raise compression just a few tenths of a point, then the 64cc chamber will work great. And, if you're looking for the most power possible N/A while still wanting to run pump gas, then the 59cc chamber is best. Patriot Performance is the only cylinder head company that allows you to pick your combustion chamber size without ever having to mill the cylinder heads! When you cut a cylinder head, it reduces your piston-to-valve clearance. For instance, you can net 11.1:1 CR with a set of 5.3L cylinder heads if you shave them .030". However, that's .030" lost for p-to-v clearance, so it will limit you when picking a camshaft for your setup. You'd have to cut valve reliefs in your pistons to run a cam like the TSP 231/237. With the Patriot stage II LS6-style cylinder heads, you can run 11+:1 compression without reducing your piston-to-valve clearance.
Let me know if you have any other questions. We're always more than happy to help with any questions that you may have.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Let me know if you have any other questions. We're always more than happy to help with any questions that you may have.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
that's the answer I've been looking for
You guys are great
Sent you a PM as well
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: JohnsonCity, NY
Trevor, Your information is quite helpful, I would also be very interested in the answers you provided to CROWLEY's ?'s concerning PP 5.3 stage II heads. If you could post or E-mail would appreciate.
Originally Posted by gomer
The old combo was a TR220 and stage II 5.3 heads, the only difference between those two graphs was switching the TR220 and 5.3's for the LS6 style and the TSP231/237 cam. The LS6 style is worth around 10rwhp or so on a max effort setup IMO.
There is something wrong with the dyno graph. HP and TQ should always cross at 5,250. Gomer's second run with the LS6 style heads and the TSP 231/237 crosses at 5,700 or so. Something is not right with that picture.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
From: Frisco TX (Dallas Area)
Bowtieman4life, take a look at the vertical axes on the left and right of the graphs, they aren't the same. That skew the curves so that apparently "cross" at something besides 5250 (it's actually 5252 according to the equation - but what's 2 rpm between racers ) Torque and hp ARE equal at 5250. Whether the curves cross or not at that point is a function of the scaling of the axes. HTH
) Torque and hp ARE equal at 5250. Whether the curves cross or not at that point is a function of the scaling of the axes. HTH