How does a head STUD twist off in the block? You are putting it in the block with a tiny allen wrench, Even if it snaps in half torquing it down (less likely with studs), backing it out should be easy work since the coarse end wouldn't be under any real pressure when it happens.

Any bolt can break, even ARP stuff. There isn't any fairy dust or magic cast into their steel. And it can't be worse than a stock TTY bolt, and there are even people out there using TTY bolts and are turboed.

I knew I would probably get some flak for this, but what would you guys think if I install these bolts, my motor makes a bajillion horsepower, and nothing bad happens? Am I still an idiot? Perhaps, but an idiot with $200 more in his wallet.

 

I wouldnt consider it as much flak as warning from people tryin to save you a potiential VERY expensive mistake for tryin to save a few bucks on bolts.

And show me some ARP head studs broken please, cause I havent seen any posted on here in the 5yrs I've been a member, but I have seen some cheapo bolts broken including stock TTY bolts.

 

No, you're right. Good quality is not magic, but that's what seperates the knock off's from the original. Typically, those knock-off brand's are made from an inferior material and with inferior machining techniques. There is a VERY good chance that these knock off's you purchased are made with an alloy possibly even inferior to that of the GM bolts, and the threads were simply cut on a lathe.

I'd say you're lucky.

 

from a local forum about building his own head studs....

"I pulled the motor out of the truck. The head studs were broken as they were defective from the manufacture, so naturally I took matters into my own hands and built my own. They should be about 50,000psi stronger than ARP studs and they were allot cheaper to make."

"Project brick **** house decided to take a **** on me. I managed to get out all of the broken studs fairly easy and things were going well. Then I went to put in my own home built studs. Well I found out the hard way that they were not up to the task. I have been waiting on the pull test results for a month now and have not heard anything. I decided to take a chance and try and install them without the test results. Well the first 2 torqued to 110ftlbs. but the 3rd snapped at about 85ftlbs. My guess is the CNC cut threads caused the problem as rolling the threads makes them stronger and the block end snapped right in half. So this was so far down in the hole I had to pull the heads to drill and easy out it again. This is what can happen when you try stuff on your own. Sometimes it works, and sometime it don't. I will do further testing on the rest of the studs that I have and maybe try heat treating them to see if it will harden them up a bit. To brittle is bad and so is to soft, I could tell the threads stretched by the feel of the torque wrench so I know my material is to soft. I was on to a good idea but since I just want to get her up and running I went ahead and ordered some arp studs which will do the job for now and be a step up from the stock bolts."

Now you can see where the problems lie and where assumptions can get you. At least it never started. But still you get the picture.

Why do you think ARP is who they are? Because they know metallurgy. Have you read their explanation of "aircraft quality" fasteners? They have some brains behind their prices.

 

i absolutly agree with john, my former job was at a specialty steel mill for 13 years in that time my scope of work involved every process from putting it in the furnaces to shipping finished product,Which also included the Metalurgy Lab that tested the shipped product,Believe me you cannot receive raw steel,Form it,Machine it,Heat treat it possibly several times,Clean it several times in the process,Inspect it,Package it,Ship it to the customer for there use,And come up that cheap.

 

When a thread is rolled it basically compresses the metal at the thread making them resistant to breaking, this is a very expensive process compared with cutting.
When it is cut (which is much cheaper to do) the weakest point is the root of the tooth. In the case of an engine fastener on the LS engine, the coarse end installed in the block will have the deepest root or weak spot. The point in the stud where the threads end that is not threaded into the block is the weakest point and where inferior products will fail. Getting the piece of broken stud out would be tough I would guess.
If you can't afford good quality studs/bolts, buy the factory bolts as they are cheap.......

Kurt

 

These threads are rolled, I know what cut threads look like.

 

Well I head stud/bolt will twist off on installation or removal. Also you are supposed to not bottom out studs with any force in a block, it is not necessary. Yea if you are just torquing it down and it snaps it would be pretty easy to remove, it is still pretty annoying having to use a punch, drill, and easy out.

I just hope the heat treatment and metal is okay for your use.

 

I think I've read about people using these before a couple of times without issues. I would have to search around for it to be 100% certain, but I have a pretty good memory. I look forward to seeing your results out of them.

 

I have used them for the past few months on a heads and cam car with no issues, i used arp lube and torqued them to arp specs and no leaks or broken bolts. but that is me. Now if you are running boost i would like to see how they do also.

 

We have used them in several engines, One of them makes pretty good power considering its a 6.0 14psi an a 75 shot! For the price i couldnt beat em.

 

As flippin said, 9X$ shipped and the motor still runs strong. Has seen 14#'s plus a 75 shot and never had a headgasket failure or stud failure. I have them in my 5.3 and there really a nice bolt.

 

How can you tell?

 

since you know so much about metallurgy and machining-why are asking questions about these studs,you already know all the answers

 

well at least they aren't totally snake oil. Just as some are saying that quality cost money, some times there is a point where you are paying to much for the quality received. You guys know that the fabled MSD Opti is made in china right? In fact, on the same assembly line that made my $70 dollar "knockoff" unit.

Anyhow, I see both sides to the argument, those investing $$$$ into a turbo build have no reason to go with anyone else but ARP, they are tried and true. However for a budget heads/cam or junkyard build, I think these might be a lifesaver for some people just looking to get back on the road with something sufficient for DD/street duty.

I saw these a while back and might consider them for my junker LQ4, it seems to me that manufacturer's need to pass certain standards to not only remain profitable, but avoid lawsuits. IF these bolts seem to be up to snuff for those running them, again, I can't see the harm in running them on a budget build. Some one has to be a guinea pig and provide some proof results anyway right?

 

Although I'm all for buying American and or quality parts , they can be very expensive when compared to other alternatives . I firmly believe that the LS consumer is being gouged on certain products . These studs could be a decent product or they could be total garbage . The only way to know is to test them . ARP tests their products which costs money , but so does advertising and sponsorship . There are quality components made overseas and we have junk made here as well . How many cranks & rods are made in China ? I would use caution in a boost build but it wouldn't kill someone to take an honest look @ these as an economic alternative . Let's do some tests , let's analyze these things , talking **** doesn't do any of us any good .

 

I agree, but I would leave the R&D to the people with the time and money to do it...and do it properly. If $200 is substantial, it's probably not idea to go testing parts to see how they hold up. That $200 can multiply pretty quickly if we find that they don't work as well as we would like. A better test would be rockwell testing, etc. I think everyone who has suggested against these studs has done so in order to save the OP a major headache, but he has ignored that advice, so it's on him now.

Hopefully, we won't have to say I told you so.

 

$200 is not substantial... but if you paid 3x more for every part you bought for your car, things would add up fast. If you bought name brand everything for your car, you'd end up paying much more for stuff than necessary.

I like to equate this to stuff like Vibrant silicone couplers. You end up paying $60 for a single coupler when you can go on ebay and get a box of the same **** for $60, with lots of aluminum tubing to do the rest of the job.

I always just felt like ARP made a nice product, the main studs I have feel like a high quality product. They aren't, however, worth 3-4x the price of a similar product. If the off brand can get the job done, then whats the difference besides the money spent? Bragging rights? ARP is really the only name in the game, it would be nice if they had some competition to bring the prices down.

 

If anyone wants to give em a shot I have some new in box. They are the 04+ short studs. I would of used them, but ended up going with an earlier block, and gm bolts.

 

So far with use using them we have had 0 problems and i would never pay for the ARP studs until we have a failure with these studs. So far 3 years and we havent had a problem with the studs or anything in that matter. We have them in 3 motors on boost and they work great. Try them for yourself but i have already made my mind up with them.