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500RWHP stock bottom end, hydraulic roller, M6 LS1/LS6 recipe?

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Old 10-17-2011, 04:33 PM
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I am in the middle of a all out rebuild of a 5.3 going to 395 c.i.
this unit will be FI and natural aspiration also
i am doing all the machine work myself to keep the cost way down but by the time I am done in the spring I am thinking somewhere in the 600 rwhp if not more
I have alot of things to do to this block including clearancing but it will be a hell of a ride when I am done and dyno the engine, then a month or so later dyno the car
Old 10-17-2011, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BADD SS
I think you really need to ditch 3/4 of your idea's and if you are serious talk to a sponsor about doing it. It definately isnt easy..... And you dont need 2" Headers on a 346 ci motor, I have 1 7/8" on mine, and Im at 500rwhp on a 346, My rev limiter is set to 7800 rpm, and I shift at 7700, so they flow plenty.

I dont think PRC will be in your mod list, no offense, and to do it reliably with hydraulic roller you are going to be precise with your lifter preload, and running GREAT valvesprings. Cam is going to be custom too...

Just a little food for thought....
Whats in the bottom end? Is it all lightweight and forged or are you pulling that off with just rod bolts. My goal is to someday piece together a Nascar Spec Engine and run fuel injection on it.
Old 10-17-2011, 07:29 PM
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There was a guy who posted on here not long ago who got real close to 500rwhp...somewhere in the 490's on 2.5 LS6 heads.
Old 12-11-2011, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Whiteaw57
Whats in the bottom end? Is it all lightweight and forged or are you pulling that off with just rod bolts. My goal is to someday piece together a Nascar Spec Engine and run fuel injection on it.
At this point I am simply giving a list to guarantee 500RWHP on a hydraulic roller LS1/6 but if you want it to last with the AFR 230cc V2 heads and Texas Speed Tsunami camshaft, you will certainly have to flycut the pistons and since the engine is spinning to at least 7000RPM, rod bolts will be necessary.

Last edited by 35thAnniversaryPhil; 12-11-2011 at 06:21 PM.
Old 12-11-2011, 06:17 PM
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I updated the list to include KOOKS headers with 1 7/8" primaries and 3" collector. I also included the matching KOOKS 3" true duals exhaust system

Last edited by 35thAnniversaryPhil; 01-14-2012 at 03:30 PM.
Old 12-11-2011, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 35thAnniversaryPhil
Yes sir! Its definitely possible and people on this thread like Pat G and Tony Mamo have achieved.

Really don't understand why this thread was started? Every other post suggests the PatG thread & you have already read it. The requirements haven't changed.


2" primaries on 5.7L stock cubes are too big. 2" primaries are best for larger displacement engines that are moving a larger volume of air.
Old 12-11-2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LS1-450
Really don't understand why this thread was started? Every other post suggests the PatG thread & you have already read it. The requirements haven't changed.


2" primaries on 5.7L stock cubes are too big. 2" primaries are best for larger displacement engines that are moving a larger volume of air.
I agree on the primaries you can do it with 1 3/4
Old 12-12-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1-450
Really don't understand why this thread was started? Every other post suggests the PatG thread & you have already read it. The requirements haven't changed.
I started this thread to give people a list of off the shelf parts that they can use to guide them into achieving that special 500RWHP in their "stock bottom" LS1/6. Of course, fly cutting and rod bolts will probably be necessary.

If you look at thread #20, you will see that PAT G's setup from 2007 would be different today in 2011 due to the availability of newer and better parts. That being said, I compared the parts he used that have been improved since then.

I believe that the improvements in the parts, some quite major like the AFR 205 VS the 230 V2 will allow more regular mechanically inclined guys like myself to achieve that special 500RWHP mark.

Of course if we had 6 liters to work with like an LS2 or even 6.2 liters like an LS3, reaching 500RWHP would be a different and easier ballgame. To do it in our 5.7 liter LS1s is awesome.
Old 12-12-2011, 09:43 AM
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Why is this for manuals only??? Just curious.
Old 12-12-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1-450
2" primaries on 5.7L stock cubes are too big. 2" primaries are best for larger displacement engines that are moving a larger volume of air.
I figured that since it has been proven that long tube headers with 1 7/8" primaries increase horsepower as the RPM's get higher while barely taking it away down low constituted a valid argument towards the use of headers with 2" primaries and 3.5" collectors.

Source:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...o-results.html

I actually suggested that they do a follow up 1 7/8" VS 2" primary comparison to end all discussion.
Old 12-12-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by wav3form
Why is this for manuals only??? Just curious.
The Tremec T56 6 speed manual transmission VS the GM 4L60e automatic transmission always puts down more power on the chassis dyno. Automatic transmissions eat up more horsepower before it can make it to the rear wheels. Its a fact.

The automatics require more power to drive them which makes it much harder or impossible for an automatic equipped car to put down 500HP to the rear wheels.

As far as I know, only 6 speed manual cars can get to that number but somebody here might prove me wrong and show me an utter extreme case where an automatic has gotten to 500RWHP on a stock bottom end without nitrous, forced induction or race gas.
Old 12-12-2011, 10:03 AM
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Just curious, but when did TSP start making a 3.5" true dual exhaust?
Did I miss something?
Old 12-12-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_whigham
Just curious, but when did TSP start making a 3.5" true dual exhaust?
Did I miss something?
x2


As for OP, why not try e85? should make it easier to reach your goal.
Race gas yielded like 40whp difference from pump on another member on here with a 50xwhp stock bottom end ls1.
Old 12-12-2011, 11:12 AM
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Oh I see you're accounting for parasitic loss. I thought there might have been another reason.
Old 12-12-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 35thAnniversaryPhil
I started this thread to give people a list of off the shelf parts that they can use to guide them into achieving that special 500RWHP in their "stock bottom" LS1/6. Of course, fly cutting and rod bolts will probably be necessary.

If you look at thread #20, you will see that PAT G's setup from 2007 would be different today in 2011 due to the availability of newer and better parts. That being said, I compared the parts he used that have been improved since then.

I believe that the improvements in the parts, some quite major like the AFR 205 VS the 230 V2 will allow more regular mechanically inclined guys like myself to achieve that special 500RWHP mark.

Of course if we had 6 liters to work with like an LS2 or even 6.2 liters like an LS3, reaching 500RWHP would be a different and easier ballgame. To do it in our 5.7 liter LS1s is awesome.


OK, I get it now. This is meant to be an update to the process using parts that have been improved since the original thread. Good idea. I'm looking for cams that have a power band from 3K through 7,800 RPM through 5.7L stock cubes.


Agreed, rod bolts & fly cutting are going to be required.
Old 12-12-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiteaw57
Whats in the bottom end? Is it all lightweight and forged or are you pulling that off with just rod bolts. My goal is to someday piece together a Nascar Spec Engine and run fuel injection on it.
Was rod bolts, and flycut stock pistons, stock rods/crank stock rings, bearings etc....

Now running a forged ls2 540rwhp.....on a mustang dyno, through a 9" w/slicks and 4.56's
Old 12-12-2011, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_whigham
Just curious, but when did TSP start making a 3.5" true dual exhaust?
Did I miss something?
You are right, they only make up to 3"...

Do you guys have any ideas on who produces a 3.5" true dual system?
Old 12-12-2011, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LS1-450
OK, I get it now. This is meant to be an update to the process using parts that have been improved since the original thread. Good idea. I'm looking for cams that have a power band from 3K through 7,800 RPM through 5.7L stock cubes.


Agreed, rod bolts & fly cutting are going to be required.
You are right, besides PatG was using a lot of custom parts like;

-Speed density tune V.S. TODAY'S 100MM TexasSpeed OR Lingenfelter MAF

-Custom camshaft V.S. TODAY'S many sponsors who make excellent top end cams like TSP's Tsunami for example

-Custom Y-pipe V.S. TODAY'S true dual setups
Old 12-12-2011, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 35thAnniversaryPhil
You are right, besides PatG was using a lot of custom parts like;

-Speed density tune V.S. TODAY'S 100MM TexasSpeed OR Lingenfelter MAF

-Custom camshaft V.S. TODAY'S many sponsors who make excellent top end cams like TSP's Tsunami for example

-Custom Y-pipe V.S. TODAY'S true dual setups

-100mm MAF won't make much difference. I have tuning software & have measured pressure/flow through varying set ups. MAF has least effect. Although, I will say that by simply rotating it, the low end scaling of the table will change.

-Agreed, CAM is a big factor. I really liked Pat G's view regarding how lifts in the .600's are beneficial not necessarily due to the max lift, but in the extra lift available while getting into the .600's (guess we could call it "under the curve" lift).

-IDK, regarding the true dual as opposed to the Pat G "Y". The benefit from his Y was the near parallel flow in the Y as it merged. Can't get that in a true dual very easily. Yes, we get the benefit of a dual, but, the merging is not as efficient as can be had in the Y. The true dual is a less parallel X or an H in the merge area. The X would have to be near half the length of the car to get the benefit of a near parallel merge.


Side Note:
I removed my true dual X that dumped through bullets out the rear for a true dual w/ no X (no merging) through dual cat backs that dump before the rear axle. Can't confirm the exact improvement 'cuz I also made a RAM air mod @ the same time. Anyway, it is 2 kPa more stable (MAP) @ WOT. Airflow (MAF) was a little better, but, can fluctuate normally due to ambient temps.
Old 12-12-2011, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 35thAnniversaryPhil
You are right, they only make up to 3"...

Do you guys have any ideas on who produces a 3.5" true dual system?
Piece one together, and have a local shop weld it together.


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