Jay Allen Cylinder Heads???????
02-13-2004, 07:16 AM
#21
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In all fairness to Jay I have to say the car drives good, very mild yet does have descent power past 3500. After hearing what the original owner wanted out of the car, I would have to say Jay nailed it. They were not after a max power cam, but one that would have good street manners with more HP than stock.
And that's all the nice stuff you'll hear from me about the guy......
I emailed him with a few ??? on the head setup that may help with my planned cam change. His reply was damn near venomous...
You do not understand how big of a mistake you are making by changing the camshaft. Then going BACKWARDS in rocker ratio? What genious has you doing this? The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. They DO NOT understand acceleration. So a cam makes 5 more HP on a dyno. So it lopes a little harder. When does a DYNO go down the track or down the street? It NEVER does.
Sir, I have NEVER met you. It is now YOUR CAR and YOUR ENGINE. It is the good ol' U.S.A. and you are free to do what you want. Including making such a HUGE mistake you DO NOT have a clue.
Somewhere within three minutes of reading his email I dialed the phone to Futral and ordered one of his cams....I want this freaks cam outa my car
And that's all the nice stuff you'll hear from me about the guy......
I emailed him with a few ??? on the head setup that may help with my planned cam change. His reply was damn near venomous...
You do not understand how big of a mistake you are making by changing the camshaft. Then going BACKWARDS in rocker ratio? What genious has you doing this? The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. They DO NOT understand acceleration. So a cam makes 5 more HP on a dyno. So it lopes a little harder. When does a DYNO go down the track or down the street? It NEVER does.
Sir, I have NEVER met you. It is now YOUR CAR and YOUR ENGINE. It is the good ol' U.S.A. and you are free to do what you want. Including making such a HUGE mistake you DO NOT have a clue.
Somewhere within three minutes of reading his email I dialed the phone to Futral and ordered one of his cams....I want this freaks cam outa my car
02-13-2004, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by turbo'd stang
You guys building a HS car? I heard you were. Should prove if you guys can make power or not...going against Glidden, Bennett and some of the other big name Ford builders. Good luck!
You don't have to use a "big name" like Glidden or Bennett to build a winning engine in NMRA Hot Street... (... or Pure Street and Factory Stock either...)
Right Eric?
It takes a lot of expertise and talent to get naturally aspirated combos to make big power. It's not like you can just change a nitrous jet, a blower pulley size or a waste gate adjustment to get more horsepower. You have the EARN every one of them puppies!
BTW Eric... See you in Florida???
Ed
02-13-2004, 11:32 AM
#23
Micheal,
I havent taken time to read all this however ill do so later.As for your car I have been following it since day one.Please do me a favor and finish the car and take it to the track.DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP IN NUMBERS.It seems that a lot of guys on this board and others do.We have a local car with the pig cam and GTP set up.It dynoed right at the same as your car(KYLEs CAR).This car runs 11.20 on Motor.The set up works but does not lay down big numbers.however line up against it and be suprised.Micheal I know you have got on your car.Tell me it does not pull like mad.It fills like it would just keep on until it threw a rod out of the side of the block.I have had mixed feeling on this set up because it is nothing like the other guys were doing.Jay allen desighned this set up and we put it together.I will say those heads are the best heads I have ever seen.Please put some gears in that car (REAR END) some suspension and prove wether this set up works or not.The car was not finished so now one nows how it works.Atleats put some slicks on it and take it to the track.I beleave it is a low 11 second ride like it sits.Please keep me informed on your car Ill even do what I can to help you on discounted parts to see the car finished.This is an arguement that has been going on down here for a while.Please prove it right or wrong.Your car is different breed.I dont know about your driving capabilities but if you can drive it,Put some slicks on it and see what you can do.If you need anyhelp call me 1-866-648-7637
Thanks
Dave
I havent taken time to read all this however ill do so later.As for your car I have been following it since day one.Please do me a favor and finish the car and take it to the track.DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP IN NUMBERS.It seems that a lot of guys on this board and others do.We have a local car with the pig cam and GTP set up.It dynoed right at the same as your car(KYLEs CAR).This car runs 11.20 on Motor.The set up works but does not lay down big numbers.however line up against it and be suprised.Micheal I know you have got on your car.Tell me it does not pull like mad.It fills like it would just keep on until it threw a rod out of the side of the block.I have had mixed feeling on this set up because it is nothing like the other guys were doing.Jay allen desighned this set up and we put it together.I will say those heads are the best heads I have ever seen.Please put some gears in that car (REAR END) some suspension and prove wether this set up works or not.The car was not finished so now one nows how it works.Atleats put some slicks on it and take it to the track.I beleave it is a low 11 second ride like it sits.Please keep me informed on your car Ill even do what I can to help you on discounted parts to see the car finished.This is an arguement that has been going on down here for a while.Please prove it right or wrong.Your car is different breed.I dont know about your driving capabilities but if you can drive it,Put some slicks on it and see what you can do.If you need anyhelp call me 1-866-648-7637
Thanks
Dave
02-13-2004, 12:17 PM
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Thanks Dave
I won't be getting rid of this cam just yet. I will be changing it soon and will decide if I want it back in or not. There is a track very close to me and you can bet this car will gets it's share of track time.
It does drive great, no doubt. And you are right, it pulls hard. But I can't help but think that with the heads and exhaust combo it has, more is available. I'll try to get ScottyG to run with me on some third & forth gear pulls this weekend. That will tell a lot. His car is very similar with the heads and exhaust, but with a proven cam design and 430ish hp numbers. Hell, if this car hangs close to his in this experiment, I'll leave the cam in until the track opens.
And to quote the guy The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. Now, i agree that a dyno is not the proof that gets you down the track, but.....When I look at my dyno graph compaired to a TR cam, and see that I am ~20-30hp down at say 4500rpm, ~15-20 down at 3700, etc. I have to wonder where he is coming from. I fully agree that a big number at 6700rpm doesn't mean squat. But I can't argue with the numbers on the way to 6700. The big killer for me is the torque figures being lesser numbers too.
Kyle said his best time was a 12.8 @ 118 on a 2.xx sixty (i can believe that on these tires
) With good traction I would expect 1.7 avg. 60's, and along with traction I think the 118mph will likely be more like 115. This all falls in line with what my last car did (406hp/384tq). With the same gearing 12.0's were the norm. Honestly, I can't see where good traction and 4.10's would put the car in the low 11's at full weight. I can always be proven wrong though...don't mind admitting that. Actually, I'd be happy as chit if I would be wrong in this case.
If the guy wasn't such an *** in his email to me I may have waited on the cam change....now I'm just pissed off. But, I'm still able to call things like they are...if this cam works..hats off to him. We will see.
Any way...thanks for your interest and offer....sponsors like you make this fun.
I won't be getting rid of this cam just yet. I will be changing it soon and will decide if I want it back in or not. There is a track very close to me and you can bet this car will gets it's share of track time.
It does drive great, no doubt. And you are right, it pulls hard. But I can't help but think that with the heads and exhaust combo it has, more is available. I'll try to get ScottyG to run with me on some third & forth gear pulls this weekend. That will tell a lot. His car is very similar with the heads and exhaust, but with a proven cam design and 430ish hp numbers. Hell, if this car hangs close to his in this experiment, I'll leave the cam in until the track opens.
And to quote the guy The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. Now, i agree that a dyno is not the proof that gets you down the track, but.....When I look at my dyno graph compaired to a TR cam, and see that I am ~20-30hp down at say 4500rpm, ~15-20 down at 3700, etc. I have to wonder where he is coming from. I fully agree that a big number at 6700rpm doesn't mean squat. But I can't argue with the numbers on the way to 6700. The big killer for me is the torque figures being lesser numbers too.
Kyle said his best time was a 12.8 @ 118 on a 2.xx sixty (i can believe that on these tires
) With good traction I would expect 1.7 avg. 60's, and along with traction I think the 118mph will likely be more like 115. This all falls in line with what my last car did (406hp/384tq). With the same gearing 12.0's were the norm. Honestly, I can't see where good traction and 4.10's would put the car in the low 11's at full weight. I can always be proven wrong though...don't mind admitting that. Actually, I'd be happy as chit if I would be wrong in this case.If the guy wasn't such an *** in his email to me I may have waited on the cam change....now I'm just pissed off. But, I'm still able to call things like they are...if this cam works..hats off to him. We will see.
Any way...thanks for your interest and offer....sponsors like you make this fun.
02-13-2004, 12:45 PM
#25
Wow I just reed your post>i think he should have had a better responce and alot more freindly.However he is probley pretty upset with the fact the car was never finished and still does not know if it will do what is expected.Your set up is deffinly different and people have ahard time seeing things different until someone proves it to work.The qusetion is will you be that person to try something different or will you get in line with everyone else and become a follower.this is your chance to be the man that may show a whole new path.Yes it may not work but what if it does.His responce was harsh but look past that and take it to the track first.PRETTY PLEASE.LOL
If you need any thing let me know.I have been tore on which way to reed this since day one.As for the head flow numbers I beleave they are accurate.Those heads are nice.When we put that set up in that car.I was torn whether it would work or not.IT has never been to the track on slicks.Please take this pressure off my Brain and let us all know whether Jay is onto something or not.
Dave
If you need any thing let me know.I have been tore on which way to reed this since day one.As for the head flow numbers I beleave they are accurate.Those heads are nice.When we put that set up in that car.I was torn whether it would work or not.IT has never been to the track on slicks.Please take this pressure off my Brain and let us all know whether Jay is onto something or not.
Dave
02-13-2004, 12:54 PM
#26
Originally Posted by michael101
Thanks Dave
I won't be getting rid of this cam just yet. I will be changing it soon and will decide if I want it back in or not. There is a track very close to me and you can bet this car will gets it's share of track time.
It does drive great, no doubt. And you are right, it pulls hard. But I can't help but think that with the heads and exhaust combo it has, more is available. I'll try to get ScottyG to run with me on some third & forth gear pulls this weekend. That will tell a lot. His car is very similar with the heads and exhaust, but with a proven cam design and 430ish hp numbers. Hell, if this car hangs close to his in this experiment, I'll leave the cam in until the track opens.
And to quote the guy The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. Now, i agree that a dyno is not the proof that gets you down the track, but.....When I look at my dyno graph compaired to a TR cam, and see that I am ~20-30hp down at say 4500rpm, ~15-20 down at 3700, etc. I have to wonder where he is coming from. I fully agree that a big number at 6700rpm doesn't mean squat. But I can't argue with the numbers on the way to 6700. The big killer for me is the torque figures being lesser numbers too.
Kyle said his best time was a 12.8 @ 118 on a 2.xx sixty (i can believe that on these tires ) With good traction I would expect 1.7 avg. 60's, and along with traction I think the 118mph will likely be more like 115. This all falls in line with what my last car did (406hp/384tq). With the same gearing 12.0's were the norm. Honestly, I can't see where good traction and 4.10's would put the car in the low 11's at full weight. I can always be proven wrong though...don't mind admitting that. Actually, I'd be happy as chit if I would be wrong in this case.
If the guy wasn't such an *** in his email to me I may have waited on the cam change....now I'm just pissed off. But, I'm still able to call things like they are...if this cam works..hats off to him. We will see.
Any way...thanks for your interest and offer....sponsors like you make this fun.
I won't be getting rid of this cam just yet. I will be changing it soon and will decide if I want it back in or not. There is a track very close to me and you can bet this car will gets it's share of track time.
It does drive great, no doubt. And you are right, it pulls hard. But I can't help but think that with the heads and exhaust combo it has, more is available. I'll try to get ScottyG to run with me on some third & forth gear pulls this weekend. That will tell a lot. His car is very similar with the heads and exhaust, but with a proven cam design and 430ish hp numbers. Hell, if this car hangs close to his in this experiment, I'll leave the cam in until the track opens.
And to quote the guy The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. Now, i agree that a dyno is not the proof that gets you down the track, but.....When I look at my dyno graph compaired to a TR cam, and see that I am ~20-30hp down at say 4500rpm, ~15-20 down at 3700, etc. I have to wonder where he is coming from. I fully agree that a big number at 6700rpm doesn't mean squat. But I can't argue with the numbers on the way to 6700. The big killer for me is the torque figures being lesser numbers too.
Kyle said his best time was a 12.8 @ 118 on a 2.xx sixty (i can believe that on these tires
) With good traction I would expect 1.7 avg. 60's, and along with traction I think the 118mph will likely be more like 115. This all falls in line with what my last car did (406hp/384tq). With the same gearing 12.0's were the norm. Honestly, I can't see where good traction and 4.10's would put the car in the low 11's at full weight. I can always be proven wrong though...don't mind admitting that. Actually, I'd be happy as chit if I would be wrong in this case.If the guy wasn't such an *** in his email to me I may have waited on the cam change....now I'm just pissed off. But, I'm still able to call things like they are...if this cam works..hats off to him. We will see.
Any way...thanks for your interest and offer....sponsors like you make this fun.
Dave
02-13-2004, 12:59 PM
#27
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I left out some of the nastier comments that he made in that post. Never could understand Ford guys anyway. 
I too, trust the head numbers. Can't argue with his experience in that department. I plan to really put those heads to work in a few months with a big inch motor.
Think all I am lacking is a screamin deal on some LCA's and a set of 4.10's to be ready to find out. Well and the tuning issue for changing the gears...that's a PITA.
I too, trust the head numbers. Can't argue with his experience in that department. I plan to really put those heads to work in a few months with a big inch motor.
Think all I am lacking is a screamin deal on some LCA's and a set of 4.10's to be ready to find out. Well and the tuning issue for changing the gears...that's a PITA.
02-13-2004, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by michael101
Somewhere within three minutes of reading his email I dialed the phone to Futral and ordered one of his cams....I want this freaks cam outa my car
02-13-2004, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by michael101
In all fairness to Jay I have to say the car drives good, very mild yet does have descent power past 3500. After hearing what the original owner wanted out of the car, I would have to say Jay nailed it. They were not after a max power cam, but one that would have good street manners with more HP than stock.
And that's all the nice stuff you'll hear from me about the guy......
I emailed him with a few ??? on the head setup that may help with my planned cam change. His reply was damn near venomous...
You do not understand how big of a mistake you are making by changing the camshaft. Then going BACKWARDS in rocker ratio? What genious has you doing this? The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. They DO NOT understand acceleration. So a cam makes 5 more HP on a dyno. So it lopes a little harder. When does a DYNO go down the track or down the street? It NEVER does.
Sir, I have NEVER met you. It is now YOUR CAR and YOUR ENGINE. It is the good ol' U.S.A. and you are free to do what you want. Including making such a HUGE mistake you DO NOT have a clue.
Somewhere within three minutes of reading his email I dialed the phone to Futral and ordered one of his cams....I want this freaks cam outa my car
And that's all the nice stuff you'll hear from me about the guy......
I emailed him with a few ??? on the head setup that may help with my planned cam change. His reply was damn near venomous...
You do not understand how big of a mistake you are making by changing the camshaft. Then going BACKWARDS in rocker ratio? What genious has you doing this? The problem is with the LS-1 guys EVERY LAST ONE still wants to race a dyno. They DO NOT understand acceleration. So a cam makes 5 more HP on a dyno. So it lopes a little harder. When does a DYNO go down the track or down the street? It NEVER does.
Sir, I have NEVER met you. It is now YOUR CAR and YOUR ENGINE. It is the good ol' U.S.A. and you are free to do what you want. Including making such a HUGE mistake you DO NOT have a clue.
Somewhere within three minutes of reading his email I dialed the phone to Futral and ordered one of his cams....I want this freaks cam outa my car
03-17-2004, 12:16 AM
#30
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by EDC
Scott,
You don't have to use a "big name" like Glidden or Bennett to build a winning engine in NMRA Hot Street... (... or Pure Street and Factory Stock either...)
Right Eric?
It takes a lot of expertise and talent to get naturally aspirated combos to make big power. It's not like you can just change a nitrous jet, a blower pulley size or a waste gate adjustment to get more horsepower. You have the EARN every one of them puppies!
BTW Eric... See you in Florida???
Ed
You don't have to use a "big name" like Glidden or Bennett to build a winning engine in NMRA Hot Street... (... or Pure Street and Factory Stock either...)
Right Eric?
It takes a lot of expertise and talent to get naturally aspirated combos to make big power. It's not like you can just change a nitrous jet, a blower pulley size or a waste gate adjustment to get more horsepower. You have the EARN every one of them puppies!
BTW Eric... See you in Florida???
Ed
