Yet another Cam Choice thread!
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Yet another Cam Choice thread! Alright guys, I was originally gonna go with the EPS 234/246 cam because it was good for a stock-ish engine and made AMAZING power cam-only. After talking to a couple guys, they seem to think that I should reconsider..what do you guys think? I've also heard the 98s have weaker rod bolts..something to factor in as well. I want something thats pretty torquey but also give me plenty of horsepower too.
The Lowdown:
-Car is a 98 firebird formula M6
-original engine with 126.6k miles on it
-K&N filter, 4.10 gears, upgraded eaton locker, hooker headers and o/r y with gmmg catback
-I want something with a really nice lope to it but also something that will put me atleast at 400rwhp and similar torque
-Want a somewhat flat power/torque curve
-It will be a daily driver but I;m not concerned with dailying a HUGE cam hehe
-It will see the strip and the track occasionally
The Lowdown:
-Car is a 98 firebird formula M6
-original engine with 126.6k miles on it
-K&N filter, 4.10 gears, upgraded eaton locker, hooker headers and o/r y with gmmg catback
-I want something with a really nice lope to it but also something that will put me atleast at 400rwhp and similar torque
-Want a somewhat flat power/torque curve
-It will be a daily driver but I;m not concerned with dailying a HUGE cam hehe
-It will see the strip and the track occasionally
Last edited by 1Psycho; Dec 1, 2010 at 11:40 PM.
What's the point of a huge cam if your not going to the strip and launching at 5k. To be realistic 400rwhp can be had with a small cam and will have great throttle response that will blow the tires off. Some cams that come to mind are 228r 226 230 eps 228 232
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From: Southern California
but I'll be going to the strip occasionally once I get the cam but not like a once a month thing unless somewhere around here has something once a month haha. Just trying to decide if it's worth camming the firebird or savin the money and gettin a project to go with it..
It will be worth doing the cam,its really all you want man,beeing a 98 I have heard the rod bolts are junk ,I have a 99 m6 and I'm gonna do the rod bolts in that,but my cam is a ms4 and I will be spinning it to 6800,there are a lot of cams out there that aren't as harsh on everything,I tell ya what with 4.10s in a stock 10 bolt and making 400 hp or more I wouldn't be launching to hard at track or using drag radials untill you can upgrade to a 12 bolt rearend,I tell ya a good cam in there you will be very happy,makes the car so much more fun to drive,good luck in your choice and God bless
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Around town ill cruise and shift around the avg 2500-3000..around the street pulls maybe around like 6400 shifts..hard shifts at the strip..high 6s is where I wanna be
Love the sound of the TS Magic Sticks but how are their power/torqe curves? What kinda numbers do they put up on a good tune and the mods I have? I just dont think any ms cam will put me where I wanna be.
Love the sound of the TS Magic Sticks but how are their power/torqe curves? What kinda numbers do they put up on a good tune and the mods I have? I just dont think any ms cam will put me where I wanna be.
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From: Southern California
It will be worth doing the cam,its really all you want man,beeing a 98 I have heard the rod bolts are junk ,I have a 99 m6 and I'm gonna do the rod bolts in that,but my cam is a ms4 and I will be spinning it to 6800,there are a lot of cams out there that aren't as harsh on everything,I tell ya what with 4.10s in a stock 10 bolt and making 400 hp or more I wouldn't be launching to hard at track or using drag radials untill you can upgrade to a 12 bolt rearend,I tell ya a good cam in there you will be very happy,makes the car so much more fun to drive,good luck in your choice and God bless
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From the other thread...
As far as the rod bolts, I don't think they should be spun much more than 62-6300RPM on a pre-2001, but to each his own.
The possibility of changing the shift points in the future is sort of another can of worms. A cam that is best for a 6200RPM shift point won't be the same as one for the 7000RPM
The 400RWHP might be sort of tricky with 6200RPM max, a new intake manifold will help... However since you have a manual that is an advantage. I think you can get there with intake duration in the 220's, all the while keeping up dynamic compression and also low-mid range torque / horsepower that you would otherwise give up by going wild with the duration. With the 4.10's your car won't be quite as horrid with a so called donkey-dick cam, but you will be giving up some part throttle and every day drivability for no reason if the max RPM is 6200RPM.
You could try browsing the dyno results section. In general one problem I have found looking for numbers is the lack of graphs because they aren't posted or because some times the threads are so old the graphs are gone. In addition, when people post numbers often times they don't even say what RPM the peaks are at.
Edit: opening up the RPM range to 6400RPM makes the selection IMO slightly easier. There are a few "cam only" cars with 400RWP with 224 type cams, but the LS6 intake manifold is going to be quite helpful. As far as the even bigger cams, I think it starts to make a lot less sense unless you have really good heads and intake manifold.
Alright, guess I'm gonna have to rethink the EPS cam then. Thanks for the advice guys. Well I'm set at a 6200 limit right now, once I do the cam and get the engine to handle it, I'll probably put it at like 6800 or maybe 7000. How much weaker were the 98 rod bolts though? I want somethin with a really nice lope that will push me atleast to 400rwhp. I'll start up a new thread with what I'm lookin for and let me know of your reccomendations there. Thanks guys!
The possibility of changing the shift points in the future is sort of another can of worms. A cam that is best for a 6200RPM shift point won't be the same as one for the 7000RPM
The 400RWHP might be sort of tricky with 6200RPM max, a new intake manifold will help... However since you have a manual that is an advantage. I think you can get there with intake duration in the 220's, all the while keeping up dynamic compression and also low-mid range torque / horsepower that you would otherwise give up by going wild with the duration. With the 4.10's your car won't be quite as horrid with a so called donkey-dick cam, but you will be giving up some part throttle and every day drivability for no reason if the max RPM is 6200RPM.
You could try browsing the dyno results section. In general one problem I have found looking for numbers is the lack of graphs because they aren't posted or because some times the threads are so old the graphs are gone. In addition, when people post numbers often times they don't even say what RPM the peaks are at.
Edit: opening up the RPM range to 6400RPM makes the selection IMO slightly easier. There are a few "cam only" cars with 400RWP with 224 type cams, but the LS6 intake manifold is going to be quite helpful. As far as the even bigger cams, I think it starts to make a lot less sense unless you have really good heads and intake manifold.
^No. That cam will not make good AVERAGE power under the curve, but will scream up top.
That EPS cam will make solid power under the curve. That's what unique about EPS lobes' characteristics and ramp rates.
You should call Geoff at EPS and just ask for his thoughts. He'll point you in the correct direction. Just make sure you're planning ahead as well, especially if you think you might eventually add heads/intake/etc.
That EPS cam will make solid power under the curve. That's what unique about EPS lobes' characteristics and ramp rates.
You should call Geoff at EPS and just ask for his thoughts. He'll point you in the correct direction. Just make sure you're planning ahead as well, especially if you think you might eventually add heads/intake/etc.
Last edited by Squirts11; Dec 2, 2010 at 12:08 AM.
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Cam Motion:
C33-790 LS Hydraulic Roller Camshaft; 228'/232', .612"/.612", 113'+4'; 2,200 to 6,200 RPM
Or for a tad more up top power:
C33-794 LS Hydraulic Roller Camshaft; 232'/236', .629"/.629", 113'+4'; 2,400 to 6,400 RPM
C33-790 LS Hydraulic Roller Camshaft; 228'/232', .612"/.612", 113'+4'; 2,200 to 6,200 RPM
Or for a tad more up top power:
C33-794 LS Hydraulic Roller Camshaft; 232'/236', .629"/.629", 113'+4'; 2,400 to 6,400 RPM
For stock cubes and good street maners, I'd stay under the 230 duration mark and try to keep the overlap as close to 0 as possible.
I just changed to a smaller cam to regain good street drive ability. The low end torque is Phenomenal ! And I don't think I lost much up top because my AFR was off only by about 1% !
Yet, a lot of it's in the tune and if your going to the strip occasionally, the larger cam will shine in the higher RPM range, and better with a new intake.
As quoted by HAZ Matt,
"The 400RWHP might be sort of tricky with 6200RPM max, a new intake manifold will help... However since you have a manual that is an advantage. I think you can get there with intake duration in the 220's, all the while keeping up dynamic compression and also low-mid range torque / horsepower that you would otherwise give up by going wild with the duration. With the 4.10's your car won't be quite as horrid with a so called donkey-dick cam, but you will be giving up some part throttle and every day drivability for no reason if the max RPM is 6200RPM."
I just changed to a smaller cam to regain good street drive ability. The low end torque is Phenomenal ! And I don't think I lost much up top because my AFR was off only by about 1% !
Yet, a lot of it's in the tune and if your going to the strip occasionally, the larger cam will shine in the higher RPM range, and better with a new intake.
As quoted by HAZ Matt,
"The 400RWHP might be sort of tricky with 6200RPM max, a new intake manifold will help... However since you have a manual that is an advantage. I think you can get there with intake duration in the 220's, all the while keeping up dynamic compression and also low-mid range torque / horsepower that you would otherwise give up by going wild with the duration. With the 4.10's your car won't be quite as horrid with a so called donkey-dick cam, but you will be giving up some part throttle and every day drivability for no reason if the max RPM is 6200RPM."
The ls6 intake does really help,a stock ls1 intake sucks,you will see way better gains going to a ls6 intake,I would call texas speed and talk with them a lil there very helpful and will tell ya what you need to hear with out sugar coating the crap out of it,a custom grind might also be a good choice,that way you get something that you won't have to spin to the sky to make good power and it will have the sound you want,but if you wanna go big there are things that should be done to get the most out of it,I plan on rod bolts,12 bolt with 4.56 gears,and a lot of suspension,and ls7 lifters,I don't know what the max you can spin to on 98 rod bolts or what is a safe point but that's another thing you should ask texas speed about,as for drivability with a big cam,a grandma could drive my car,my tune is as close to perfect as you could get though,and the taller gears will help the low rpm issues they have ,just do a lot of research on what your looking for,I read for weeks and called tsp like 5 times before I went with the ms4,and I got what I wanted and wouldn't think of changing it,you wanna do things once,saves money
LS6 intake Whatever you cam decide, I might sell a LS6 intake I have with ur ls1 in on trade ?
PM me if interested.
BTW, don't you have to worry about the good ol Smog Check out there ?
PM me if interested.
BTW, don't you have to worry about the good ol Smog Check out there ?
Last edited by davidws6; Dec 2, 2010 at 10:12 AM. Reason: .
Look at the g5x1 cam from LG Motorsports. It's in the 228dur are and I ran this cam.I also ran the x2,x3 and x4 cam from LG. this x1 cam will provide the power,sound tough and drive good for a daily. I also ran near 11's n/a in a 100% full weight m6 car with only 3.73 gears. Try it and will not be sorry.
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Look at the g5x1 cam from LG Motorsports. It's in the 228dur are and I ran this cam.I also ran the x2,x3 and x4 cam from LG. this x1 cam will provide the power,sound tough and drive good for a daily. I also ran near 11's n/a in a 100% full weight m6 car with only 3.73 gears. Try it and will not be sorry.
