djfury05

iTrader: (30)

yea I'd just get a tune from Frost.. never once heard anything bad about his tunes ever.. then once you add some more stuff get a dyno tune.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

hey everyone, figured i'ld update the thread.



i almost have everything i need to complete the build, im just waiting for the seats, locks and seals to come from comp. i had purchased a set already but they didnt fit, the correct ones should be here in about five days, hopefully sooner. im really excited because i picked up an LS6 intake lastnight, i paid 300$ for it but the guy held it for me for almost a week, he was local and it only has like 40k on it. i know 300$ is a lot of money but i didnt want to try and talk him down after he held it so long for me. im just happy to have one its off of an 04' gto. the guy pulled it off to put a fast 102 on, he had patriot cnc'd 243's with ALL the boltons, it was very nice.

mike171562

iTrader: (4)

300 is about right for an ls6 intake

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Yeah 300 is fair.

I could have sold you a LS6 intake, but it probably wouldn't have fit.

I found out the wrong seats were installed on my heads so I ended up ordering a set of the 4695's myself this morning and a shim kit.

Hope to see it back together soon.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Man I went back and skimmed over your thread. You have really changed things up. I like it. Did you ever find out where your coolant leak was from? If you did I couldn't find it.

Make sure you get your spring height setup right. As mentioned talk to someone knowledgeable about it. I've learned a lot in the past week about it.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=LilJayV10;15425512]Yeah 300 is fair.

I could have sold you a LS6 intake, but it probably wouldn't have fit.

that was funny as hell. seriously made me laugh out loud.


thank you for the compliment, yeah i started off just going to change the head gasket and then once i was there..........i started thinking about changing this and changing that.....well, you know how it goes next thing you know you need that for this and this for that. i just want to keep up with the new camaros and mustangs.

unfortunately, no i never did find out where the coolant leak was for sure but when i took my stock heads into the napa they said they could tell what cylinders it was because it was severely warped inbetween cylinders 2 and 4....... i still want to get a straight edge and check my block deck surface just to make sure thats within spec. heres my theory, (fwiw lol) the stock heads where stock deck height when i took them to the machine shop, so someone didnt resurface them when they did the rebuild. i dont think the passenger head ever sealed properly inbetween cylinders 2 and 4 (thats why #2 is so clean)........also because the previous owner was only able to get like 500 miles (give or take a few) on the rebuilt motor before it started overheating. (cause of blown headgasket).
i dont know how accurate that theory is and im not saying thats what i believe 100%, thats just the best i could come up with given the circumstances and my (very basic) knowlegde.

any opinions are appreciated

what seats were installed on your heads lilj and what springs do you have? i see you ordered a shim kit..... do you think i should have ordered a shim kit too? i was just going to put them on and measure installed height. i thought it would be ok since im using basically the whole comp cam kit? i have been reading a little bit about spring installed height and coil bind but between that, measureing for pushrods and putting everything back together

if you have any tips i'ld appreciate it. thanks for checking out my thread!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

The 925's have an install height of 1.81 with 145 closed and 405 open at 1.150. The springs are for about .650 lift. Your cam has a lift of .522/.529 so the spring pressure is going to be about 345.(Take the install height of 1.81 and subtract the lift .529 which is 1.281. At that lift the pressure is about 345) With only .522/.529 lift you are really only using about 2/3 of the springs potential. By reducing the install height to lets say 1.75 (using a .060 shim) that would increase the spring rate to around 165 closed and 365 open. Reducing the install height kinda "preloads" the spring so you are using more of the springs potential I don't know if that makes since or not.

Comp suggests the 941 springs for your cam which has a closed pressure of 130 and open of 358. Reducing the height to 1.75 on the 925's would put you closer to what they suggest. Yes you will have a little more closed pressure but your open pressure would be a lot better IMO as it would be able to control the valve better.

Just putting the springs in at 1.81, even those are bad *** springs, you won't be using enough of the spring to control the valve train.

Lowering your install height, reducing it from 1.81 to 1.75 will also change your retainer to seal clearance because the valve seat will be closer to the retainer which can prevent the seal being driven down on the guide as far. However with your cam only having .522/.529 I highly doubt you will have any retainer to seal issues especially if you are using the correct retainers/seals. But it's always important to check. That's one of problems I'm having is I was sent the wrong retainers.

I hope this helps some and makes sense.

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

[QUOTE=ggino85;15426359]Its a good possiblilty the Dexcool coolant plugged some of the tubes in the radiator & caused the overheating. I have seen it happen.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

thank lilj, it helps a lot! i kinda get what you are saying......, im not sure how the math works but i get what you are saying about lowing the install height and it preloading the spring. it makes sense because you are putting more tension on the spring by lowering its install height.

so basically i need a .060, right? lol....... do they sell them at part stores (autozone, pepboys) or do i need a special/certian spring shim from comp cams because im using there double springs? thanks for the help j.

flintwrench, is there any way i can check the radiator? i've flushed it out with a hose.....could something still be clogged, i really dont want this to happen again....

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

You will have to get the shims from summit or a speed shop.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

ok im looking at summit right now and i cant find a shim that is 1.300'' outside diameter. the closest i can find is a 1.250'' diameter. the seats i ordered are 1.300'' O.D.

im confused.......these are the ones im looking at. are these the correct ones?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-4753/

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

You're best off taking the head to a local machine shop to get a shim which
fits in the spring pocket yet clears the guideboss diameter. Obviously it goes
under the spring seat so a hardened shim is not needed.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

That's the shim kit comp calls for. That's what I ordered. Why they aren't the same diameter I don't know.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

You mentioned the math about the spring rates. Maybe this will help. The 925's rate is this;

1.80=145lbs
1.75=165
1.70=185
1.65=205
1.60=225
1.55=245
1.50=265
1.45=285
1.40=305
1.35=325
1.30=345
1.25=365
1.20=385
1.15=405

The difference between 1.80(spring uncompressed/valve closed) and 1.15(spring compressed/valve open) is .650 roughly. Which is the max recommend lift of that spring.

To find out how much spring pressure you will have at any given lift is take the install height minus the lift of your cam. So w/ a 1.80 install height minus the .529 lift of your cam puts you at 1.271 which is roughly 345lbs. You won't get any more spring pressure with at that install height because you aren't compressing the spring anymore.

Now if you reduced your spring height to 1.75 it has 165lbs closed. Now take the lift of your cam minus the new install height. 1.75-.529=1.221 At that height the spring pressure is roughly 365lbs. By reducing the install height you are basically making the spring shorter which increases the pressure. All the valve spring knows is it's getting compressed not how it gets there.

So you can check to see what your pressure would be with any install height in theory. However in practicality there's a point where you can run too much install height and start wearing the spring out. At that point a different spring with different rates may be needed.

Hope that helps some.

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

You will have to remove the radiator & remove one of the plastic tanks on the side( easy to do with a large flat tip screwdriver) usually or sometimes you can just remove the cap & see the tubes plugged with the hardened dexcool. I suspect a plugged radiator when my t-stat is opening properly, proper cooling fan operation, the heater works good(indicates good water pump circulation), theres no external coolant leaks & the coolant temps gradually climb higher than 215 degrees & especially when driving the car.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

Ok thanks flintwrench, im going to have to think about that one. im not really comfortable with pulling off the tank. i mean..... the radiator would be crap afterwards, right? i think im just going to take it really easy on her and keep an eye on the temp gauge for a ''long'' while after getting her back together.

thanks lilj for all the info. i get exactly what you are saying now! i think im going to call the machine shop that rebuilt the heads and see what they think about them doing the shims or just ordering the comp 4753's. im glad those seats didnt work out, because if they did i would've had everything installed on the heads and possibly have had the heads on the car. Then i would have found out i needed these shims, lol. that woulda sucked big time!

targa, thank you for the advice........ im going to call the shop the did the heads and see what they charge for something like that. also quick question.... why wouldnt you want a hardened shim. if the shim goes under the seat isnt it getting the same pressure as the seat? i believe what you are saying is true i would just like to know the reasoning behind it.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

With the radiator I would just take it to a radiator shop and have it flushed and rodded out. That if it leaks they can fix it. Getting the plastic tank off the sides can be a pain and even a bigger one getting it to seal back up.

I'm glad you got what I was saying. It's hard sometimes to explain something on the internet and it make sense. What makes sense in my head might be complete gibberish to someone else.

Using hardened shims won't hurt and IMO I don't see why you wouldn't use them. It's not like the hardened ones are that much more money.

Going with the 925's now leaves you room to grow especially with the 243 heads you are putting on there. Eventually you will want to put a bigger cam in it. It's just the way it works. You will already have good heads and good springs on top of that. If you change your cam at a later date you might have to adjust your spring height but that would be about it. Well maybe pushords.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

that was kind of what i had in mind when i picked up the heads and then went with the double springs.......i was considering the fact that i will probably want more power down the line...i have had ls1 cars before so im kind of familiar with the getting used to the power issue. i plan on keeping this car for a very, very long time, so i want to make sure i keep it very streetable.

i think im going to order those #4753 shims tonight.

with the radiator, i already flushed it myself at school so im just going to run it and keep an eye on everything. if it even starts to get warmer than it should, im going to shut it down and go buy a new radiator. No point in risking it......... after everything i did i dont want my radiator to take me out

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

Hardened shims are for valvesprings w/dampeners....where the sharp edge
can and will cut into the shim and or head if not hardened. They are a bit
more money which doesn't need to be spent since it's under the locater.
Also to answer LilJays Q. the 1.25 diameter is the standard old school SBC
valvespring pocket size.

ggino85

iTrader: (1)

My parts came in!!!!!!!


i just got home from class and it was here, my seats, seals and locks. im going to go to the machine shop and get some shims from them, they said they would give me 16 for 10$ or 12$. i havnt ordered the comp ones yet so i think im just gonna go that route. im getting excited! its the beginning of the end.

i'll take pictures of the heads when i get them assembled