TEA or PATRIOT ???
03-07-2004, 12:11 AM
#21
Originally Posted by M6HuggerSS
were you happy with the porting on those s2 5.3's
I still need to add a cutout and go back.I've also changed the torque converter to a much better unit,but have yet to get back and make some pulls.
Last time at the track the best run...7.44 1/8 & 11.63 1/4...with the short time being almost 2 tenth off.The track was'nt prep very well that day.It was opened for test & tune only.
So I'm VERY happy with the results so far.
03-07-2004, 12:22 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by jrp
care to explain 
and out of those my vote is TEA and call up Alan and get yourself an FMS cam
and out of those my vote is TEA and call up Alan and get yourself an FMS cam
he said 5.3 PP for 10.8 CR, or 5.7 TEA milled for 10.8, with the milling cam selection is limited.........
03-07-2004, 01:28 AM
#24
TEA vs Patriot - my view
It's really best to read up on heads as much as possible then decide yourself. The two companies TEA & PP have different strong points and weaknesses.
Customer Service & Quality - IMO the nod here goes to TEA because TEA has outstanding customer service. With TEA you can talk directly with the owner if you want too. However, the best part of TEA's customer service IMO is TEA doesn't constantly have to send out parts to fix their heads after the fact.
Technical Expertise - Again TEA has the edge in this area. TEA has Micheal Paris who is a SAM grad that works with Brian doing development. If you look at the wild times Brian is on here posting at 4:30 am in the morning after doing R & D all night it's pretty obvious that TEA constantly strives to improve their products. Check out Brians new thread on the very promising new port on the LS6/6.0 heads. Patriot also does R & D but most of their recent energy appears to have been focused on bringing out new products not improving their heads. Patriot has a their own line of springs, rockers & valve train parts coming. Personally, I want continous improvement of the product and TEA has the advantage in this area. TEA also has the advantage in highly trained expert SAM machinst over Patriot. I've known two SAM grads for several years and I've learned one should NEVER underestimate how important it is to have smart top quailty talent doing your engine work, machining, product development & cylinder heads.
Warranty TEA has a better warranty with a 2 year/24,000 mile warrranty on TEA's valve train componets. Notice that TEA hasn't had to send a steady stream of replacement parts to end users to fix problems. In other words, TEA can give a good warranty because high quailty parts are used. Patriot also has a short warranty for a few months with lots of disclaimers.
Flexiable Options - TEA OWNS this area. Which stage do you want? S1, S1.5, S2, S2.5? TEA has them all. How about a custom dished exhaust valve for enhanced exhaust flow? Or better yet would you like a high flow NOS specific exhaust port? Which Ferrea valves would you like?2.02, 2.05, 2.08, 2.10 or custom race only titanium? Yes Ferrea valves are standard other than as exhaust valve on the stage 1.5 head. Hand finishing is availble for all TEA heads. Springs? Which cam? 987's for smaller mild cams, 978,977,921 etc matched to your application. What combination of these options best suit your needs? BTW TEA has develop specific combinations for the above tailored to the bore size that your engine will run. Need help with the options call TEA. Patriot - standard valves or $100 more for Ferrea. S1 or S2? For the LS6 style heads 2.02, 2.05's or 2.08's? Springs? How about gold ones one size fit's call. Ok we're done.
Pricing Patriot wins with the lowest price but if you look at reasons above it's easy to see how PP should have a lower price. Also Patriot has an ecomony of scale when buying parts because PP the performance division of the Walmart of cylinder heads, Alabama Cylinder Head. However, a careful comparison will show that PP isn't all that much less expensive. If problems occur for example new valve seals are sent out by PP due to high oil consumption as has occured several times their is a cost in more down time even if you do the work yourself. If you have to pay someone to install the new seals going with a PP head will often end up costing a good bit more than a TEA head.
Customer satisfaction - Check out all the long time happy TEA users that have posted in this thread. I'm one too. In fact after the TEA S2 5.3's for my T/A, I went back to TEA for set of their Judson LS6 2.5 hand finished heads. I've seen a lot of heads and the current TEA line up is of superior quality & potential. Of course the best thing sometimes require a little waiting because everyone else want's quailty performance too! Both companies have their loyal satisfied customers. I think your chances of being a satistifed customer are a good bit greater with TEA.
Immediate Availbility TEA looses on this accord because cookie cutting isn't (pardon this) their cup of tea. Need an off the shelf on the shelf head call PP. Ported heads from TEA will require a reasonable wait of a few weeks for your custom configured set. Note MTI, Absolute, Cartek etc also take a few weeks because they do custom heads not cookie cutters.
Power - One has to read up. I think TEA has an edge in this area based on how I see the overal data. Ultimately, I know some of TEA's older combos with 5.3 heads ~224ish sized cams have made as much or more than some PP's LS6 style combos with bigger cams. I also know some PP packages have put down nice numbers too. The only way to truely answer the power question is to test the respective heads back to back on the same engine dyno on the same engine.
So IMO the best head for the money you should go with TEA. However, as for which TEA head, I suggest calling Brian and talking with him about your application. I'm sure he can work something out for you. My favorite TEA heads are the 5.3's, 6.0's & LS6's (sweeter!) in that order.
I would also consider Absolute & MTI. West Coast seems pretty sharp as do several of the others. Mikey @ Rapid Motorsports seems to have a nice cylinder head as do Cartek, APE, RGR, GTP, and others. I think Janzter also has pretty nice 5.7 that's runs very well.
It's really best to read up on heads as much as possible then decide yourself. The two companies TEA & PP have different strong points and weaknesses.
Customer Service & Quality - IMO the nod here goes to TEA because TEA has outstanding customer service. With TEA you can talk directly with the owner if you want too. However, the best part of TEA's customer service IMO is TEA doesn't constantly have to send out parts to fix their heads after the fact.
Technical Expertise - Again TEA has the edge in this area. TEA has Micheal Paris who is a SAM grad that works with Brian doing development. If you look at the wild times Brian is on here posting at 4:30 am in the morning after doing R & D all night it's pretty obvious that TEA constantly strives to improve their products. Check out Brians new thread on the very promising new port on the LS6/6.0 heads. Patriot also does R & D but most of their recent energy appears to have been focused on bringing out new products not improving their heads. Patriot has a their own line of springs, rockers & valve train parts coming. Personally, I want continous improvement of the product and TEA has the advantage in this area. TEA also has the advantage in highly trained expert SAM machinst over Patriot. I've known two SAM grads for several years and I've learned one should NEVER underestimate how important it is to have smart top quailty talent doing your engine work, machining, product development & cylinder heads.
Warranty TEA has a better warranty with a 2 year/24,000 mile warrranty on TEA's valve train componets. Notice that TEA hasn't had to send a steady stream of replacement parts to end users to fix problems. In other words, TEA can give a good warranty because high quailty parts are used. Patriot also has a short warranty for a few months with lots of disclaimers.
Flexiable Options - TEA OWNS this area. Which stage do you want? S1, S1.5, S2, S2.5? TEA has them all. How about a custom dished exhaust valve for enhanced exhaust flow? Or better yet would you like a high flow NOS specific exhaust port? Which Ferrea valves would you like?2.02, 2.05, 2.08, 2.10 or custom race only titanium? Yes Ferrea valves are standard other than as exhaust valve on the stage 1.5 head. Hand finishing is availble for all TEA heads. Springs? Which cam? 987's for smaller mild cams, 978,977,921 etc matched to your application. What combination of these options best suit your needs? BTW TEA has develop specific combinations for the above tailored to the bore size that your engine will run. Need help with the options call TEA. Patriot - standard valves or $100 more for Ferrea. S1 or S2? For the LS6 style heads 2.02, 2.05's or 2.08's? Springs? How about gold ones one size fit's call. Ok we're done.
Pricing Patriot wins with the lowest price but if you look at reasons above it's easy to see how PP should have a lower price. Also Patriot has an ecomony of scale when buying parts because PP the performance division of the Walmart of cylinder heads, Alabama Cylinder Head. However, a careful comparison will show that PP isn't all that much less expensive. If problems occur for example new valve seals are sent out by PP due to high oil consumption as has occured several times their is a cost in more down time even if you do the work yourself. If you have to pay someone to install the new seals going with a PP head will often end up costing a good bit more than a TEA head.
Customer satisfaction - Check out all the long time happy TEA users that have posted in this thread. I'm one too. In fact after the TEA S2 5.3's for my T/A, I went back to TEA for set of their Judson LS6 2.5 hand finished heads. I've seen a lot of heads and the current TEA line up is of superior quality & potential. Of course the best thing sometimes require a little waiting because everyone else want's quailty performance too! Both companies have their loyal satisfied customers. I think your chances of being a satistifed customer are a good bit greater with TEA.
Immediate Availbility TEA looses on this accord because cookie cutting isn't (pardon this) their cup of tea. Need an off the shelf on the shelf head call PP. Ported heads from TEA will require a reasonable wait of a few weeks for your custom configured set. Note MTI, Absolute, Cartek etc also take a few weeks because they do custom heads not cookie cutters.
Power - One has to read up. I think TEA has an edge in this area based on how I see the overal data. Ultimately, I know some of TEA's older combos with 5.3 heads ~224ish sized cams have made as much or more than some PP's LS6 style combos with bigger cams. I also know some PP packages have put down nice numbers too. The only way to truely answer the power question is to test the respective heads back to back on the same engine dyno on the same engine.
So IMO the best head for the money you should go with TEA. However, as for which TEA head, I suggest calling Brian and talking with him about your application. I'm sure he can work something out for you. My favorite TEA heads are the 5.3's, 6.0's & LS6's (sweeter!) in that order.
I would also consider Absolute & MTI. West Coast seems pretty sharp as do several of the others. Mikey @ Rapid Motorsports seems to have a nice cylinder head as do Cartek, APE, RGR, GTP, and others. I think Janzter also has pretty nice 5.7 that's runs very well.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 03-07-2004 at 11:51 AM.
03-07-2004, 10:01 AM
#25
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If you plan on running a 222 cam, go with AS with his 210CC runners. I installed TEA 1.5's on my old engine with a 222 cam. I gained 11 peak rwhp, but lost 7 rwhp under 5000rpm's vs. stock LS6 heads. These same TEA heads are making 430rwhp in my old motor with a 229/229 cam in my buddies WS6. I think TEA and Patriot both have good heads, but their runners are a little too big for a baby 222 cam IMHO.
I say go with AS or a bigger cam.
I say go with AS or a bigger cam.
Last edited by Reboot; 03-07-2004 at 10:26 AM.
03-07-2004, 11:11 AM
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GM LS6 
I have no complaints! But ive talked a lot with Jay at Absolute and hes a bad *** for sure... he hasnt even gotten a penny from me yet and spent quite a bit of time explaining what gains a stage 2.5 will have over a 2 etc... and he offered to machine the springs to fit etc etc... and Verbs is a local and had nothing but good luck with his TEA, and I know for a fact he calls TEA on a daily basis with dumb questions and as far as I know they spend time with him answering every one of them! Sorry Verbs
My opinion - TEA or Absolute! Plus notice which heads all the faster cars are running, as well as the big dogs on the forum... Not to mention LG cracked 503 rwhp with absolutes! Still waiting to see a Patriot customer smack that benchmark or even compete in a contest! But you wont because they really are in a different ballpark... As one said above cookie cutter heads vs two HIGHLY experienced head porters that continously are making new achievements!
I have no complaints! But ive talked a lot with Jay at Absolute and hes a bad *** for sure... he hasnt even gotten a penny from me yet and spent quite a bit of time explaining what gains a stage 2.5 will have over a 2 etc... and he offered to machine the springs to fit etc etc... and Verbs is a local and had nothing but good luck with his TEA, and I know for a fact he calls TEA on a daily basis with dumb questions and as far as I know they spend time with him answering every one of them! Sorry Verbs My opinion - TEA or Absolute! Plus notice which heads all the faster cars are running, as well as the big dogs on the forum... Not to mention LG cracked 503 rwhp with absolutes! Still waiting to see a Patriot customer smack that benchmark or even compete in a contest! But you wont because they really are in a different ballpark... As one said above cookie cutter heads vs two HIGHLY experienced head porters that continously are making new achievements!
03-07-2004, 11:15 AM
#29
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I'm sure by now everyone here knows I would be partial to the Patriot's. I've had great success with them. I'm sure the TEA's are good too. But for the price the Patriot's are tough to beat.
03-07-2004, 11:34 AM
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Absolute speed heads are a bargin in my book... Complete and ready to bolt on $1599 for the stage II heads... Include springs and all! Or even go with just the Stage 1.5s at $1299!!!
Edit - Flow numbers look great too!
Absolute speed flow numbers
Edit - Flow numbers look great too!
Absolute speed flow numbers
03-07-2004, 12:10 PM
#31
Originally Posted by CANNIBAL
TEA, without a doubt. They have a 2yr/24,000 mile warranty on their heads.
TEA
03-07-2004, 12:22 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by SSOnYourSix
GM LS6 I have no complaints! But ive talked a lot with Jay at Absolute and hes a bad *** for sure... he hasnt even gotten a penny from me yet and spent quite a bit of time explaining what gains a stage 2.5 will have over a 2 etc... and he offered to machine the springs to fit etc etc... and Verbs is a local and had nothing but good luck with his TEA, and I know for a fact he calls TEA on a daily basis with dumb questions and as far as I know they spend time with him answering every one of them! Sorry Verbs
My opinion - TEA or Absolute! Plus notice which heads all the faster cars are running, as well as the big dogs on the forum... Not to mention LG cracked 503 rwhp with absolutes! Still waiting to see a Patriot customer smack that benchmark or even compete in a contest! But you wont because they really are in a different ballpark... As one said above cookie cutter heads vs two HIGHLY experienced head porters that continously are making new achievements!
I have no complaints! But ive talked a lot with Jay at Absolute and hes a bad *** for sure... he hasnt even gotten a penny from me yet and spent quite a bit of time explaining what gains a stage 2.5 will have over a 2 etc... and he offered to machine the springs to fit etc etc... and Verbs is a local and had nothing but good luck with his TEA, and I know for a fact he calls TEA on a daily basis with dumb questions and as far as I know they spend time with him answering every one of them! Sorry Verbs My opinion - TEA or Absolute! Plus notice which heads all the faster cars are running, as well as the big dogs on the forum... Not to mention LG cracked 503 rwhp with absolutes! Still waiting to see a Patriot customer smack that benchmark or even compete in a contest! But you wont because they really are in a different ballpark... As one said above cookie cutter heads vs two HIGHLY experienced head porters that continously are making new achievements!
500 rwhp,how do you know it has not been achieved?
Last edited by TVWilkes; 03-07-2004 at 12:32 PM.
03-07-2004, 12:23 PM
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TEA does excellent work. But the core charge and 3 week turnaround is a definite negative, especially considering if you plan on selling the car. Patriots price is hard to beat. Another option is the MTI ST2E heads for $1795 with no core charge. I can't believe these are not more popular; these are first quality pieces at a killer price. I would go with these if they were available with perimiter bolt patterns.
03-07-2004, 12:36 PM
#34
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I have the Patriot 5.3's and am very pleased with the results. I will be on the dyno later this month and also the track to verify my gains. As for the warranty differences i would ask if TEA or Absolute will cover a stock valve seat dropping and the related collateral damages. If they answer yes in writing i would definately go with them. If not get the patriots and save yourself some cash.
03-07-2004, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TVWilkes
Everyone will be able to prove what they have this coming up weekend at the LS1tech shootout.Jason & Trevor from TSP competed real well at the thunder shootout in november.I guess you missed that,they won the head & cam class.
500 rwhp,how do you know it has not been achieved?
500 rwhp,how do you know it has not been achieved?
I dont read the boards much, whos going for you guys to the shootout and what are they driving ? Also whos cam are they using ?
03-07-2004, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TVWilkes
Everyone will be able to prove what they have this coming up weekend at the LS1tech shootout.Jason & Trevor from TSP competed real well at the thunder shootout in november.I guess you missed that,they won the head & cam class.
500 rwhp,how do you know it has not been achieved?
500 rwhp,how do you know it has not been achieved?
Ya Terry, way to let them know!
Patriot Performance
03-07-2004, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SSOnYourSix
Only two have done 500+ with a H/C setup publicly... I didnt see patriot on either of them... Unless you guys are hiding something?
03-07-2004, 06:45 PM
#40
Originally Posted by BLKTA
TEA does excellent work. But the core charge and 3 week turnaround is a definite negative, especially considering if you plan on selling the car. Patriots price is hard to beat. Another option is the MTI ST2E heads for $1795 with no core charge. I can't believe these are not more popular; these are first quality pieces at a killer price. I would go with these if they were available with perimiter bolt patterns.
MTI all The Way