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Why no gains after head install?

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Old 09-12-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 01ssreda4
No, no, and no. No yesterday, no today, no tomorrow. Absolutely not.



They do not make much difference in the autos, especially since he only back-tracked to a 3.23.

OP, something is wrong. Your 60 should be better, you ET should be better, and your mph should be better.
Do you think it would be mechanical or tune related? Car seems to run fine. Idles well, doesnt spit and sputter or anything like that. Could my PRs be too short? Would that even make much of a difference? I am running a 7.325? I measured with the comp adjustable pr checker. Installed ls7 lifters during head swap and am running .045 head gaskets, stock rockers.
Old 09-12-2011, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 01ssreda4
They do not make much difference in the autos, especially since he only back-tracked to a 3.23.
Your statement is consistent with several previous threads that I found so I do not disagree. However, can you tell me why the effect of gear changes on the autos is so much less significant than on manual transmission cars?
Old 09-12-2011, 05:20 PM
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Ok I have uploaded my tune in its current state. I have attached two logs, one from the track and one from some tuning yesterday. The night at the track the car was getting pretty fat at the top end (LTFTs were adding fuel) and not much timing pull, but when I lean it out closer to what AFR I want to run (12.5:1) it starts to pull timing. Is this were I am losing the power?
Attached Files
File Type: hpt
SS Heads Cam_ve_maf_9-11-11.hpt (463.3 KB, 106 views)
File Type: hpl
HC_Track1_9-9-11.hpl (110.7 KB, 78 views)
File Type: hpl
SCAN_9-11-11.hpl (151.1 KB, 68 views)
Old 09-12-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkman
Your statement is consistent with several previous threads that I found so I do not disagree. However, can you tell me why the effect of gear changes on the autos is so much less significant than on manual transmission cars?

Torque converter.
Old 09-12-2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
Torque converter.
Bingo
Old 09-12-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
Torque converter.
Okay, I have read all the stickies on stalls, etc. But help me understand this: If you have two identical automatic cars, one with a 3.73 rear gear and the other with a 3.23 rear gear, it seems to me that the only difference at the automatic transmission output is that one car (the 3.73) will have a driveshaft that requires less torque to turn - So why doesn't that help?
Old 09-12-2011, 08:24 PM
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It looks like I have opened a can of worms. ha ha!
Old 09-12-2011, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftySS
It looks like I have opened a can of worms. ha ha!
Sorry about the threadjack - I am just trying to get schooled.
Old 09-12-2011, 08:28 PM
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no not a problem. I am learning to.
Old 09-12-2011, 08:33 PM
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I just hope I am losing some power in the tune..
Old 09-12-2011, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkman
Sorry about the threadjack - I am just trying to get schooled.
Yeah I'm always down to learn something.

OP,

I can't look at your tuner files but what's your injector duty cycle?
Old 09-12-2011, 09:53 PM
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about 72-75% duty cycle
Old 09-12-2011, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftySS
Do you think it would be mechanical or tune related? Car seems to run fine. Idles well, doesnt spit and sputter or anything like that. Could my PRs be too short? Would that even make much of a difference? I am running a 7.325? I measured with the comp adjustable pr checker. Installed ls7 lifters during head swap and am running .045 head gaskets, stock rockers.
Hard to say, hell it could be both. You need to find out why its pulling timing though.

Originally Posted by Darkman
Your statement is consistent with several previous threads that I found so I do not disagree. However, can you tell me why the effect of gear changes on the autos is so much less significant than on manual transmission cars?
Well one reason is manual cars are way under-geared IMO.

Originally Posted by Darkman
Okay, I have read all the stickies on stalls, etc. But help me understand this: If you have two identical automatic cars, one with a 3.73 rear gear and the other with a 3.23 rear gear, it seems to me that the only difference at the automatic transmission output is that one car (the 3.73) will have a driveshaft that requires less torque to turn - So why doesn't that help?
I have raced an identically modded car with 2.73s and I had 3.23s and neither of us could pull (from a roll).
Old 09-12-2011, 10:53 PM
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what kinda stall do u have in ur car right now??
Old 09-12-2011, 11:04 PM
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We don't know who you are directing that at....
Old 09-12-2011, 11:39 PM
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The gear change i assure you has dropped your mph in the 1/4. Ive done many combinations and i am a veteran street/strip racer. A car with your acceleration you have cost yourself atleast 1.5 mph. Maybe .07-.08 in et.
Old 09-12-2011, 11:45 PM
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Are you using a wideband ti tune wot?
Old 09-12-2011, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 99reddevilFRC
The gear change i assure you has dropped your mph in the 1/4. Ive done many combinations and i am a veteran street/strip racer. A car with your acceleration you have cost yourself atleast 1.5 mph. Maybe .07-.08 in et.
But the heads should have gained 30-50 hp. So that would far offset what you are saying the gear swap would have taken away.
Old 09-13-2011, 12:06 AM
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Just my opinion,you put on the heads and gained 30-50hp.Went down on gear size and your wondering why your not running a better time.The HP you got with the heads you lost on the gears.Put 3:73 gears back in and you'll pick up 5-7 tenth's of a second in the 1/4 mile.Are you using a stock torque converter.
Old 09-13-2011, 12:07 AM
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Not to throw a "wrench in the works", but everything that I've been reading/learning about tuning always states that the only way to CORRECTLY tune for VE involves a steady state on a dyno as a starting point. I'm obviously no expert with regards to tuning, but am left thinking that no matter how good he thinks his tuning ability is, he's still leaving a significant amount of power "on the table" through not being able to correctly CALIBRATE for VE.

He changed to a set of worked over heads....

Am I missing something here?


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