Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Qverlap question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 19, 2011 | 01:20 PM
  #1  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default Qverlap question

A search really didn't get me what I am looking for. I think Im about 80% there learning about cams and cam theory. I get the straight forward stuff, now its onto the tougher questions and just for my general knowledge and curiosity I have a question about Overlap in a Camshaft. I see it referred to as what gives the chop/lope I.E more overlap means a rougher idle. I also understand overlap refers to the time in degrees of rotation that the intake and exhaust valve are both open. My Question is what is the effect of a negative overlap?

I recently did a cam swap from a -1 degree overlap cam 224/230 114lsa
to a +15 degree overlap cam 238/240 112lsa

The reason I ask is because however my idle is more radical is wasn't what I expected going from the first cam to the second. They're fairly close sounding.

I have a bunch of questions to add to this main one but maybe if someone could explain what exactly overlap will theoretically change I might can gather from that what I am trying to figure out.

Thanks in advance. If I need to stop taking up space with my theory questions just let me know and I will delete this.
Reply
Old Oct 19, 2011 | 02:02 PM
  #2  
MM98's Avatar
TECH Fanatic
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
iTrader: (13)
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 2
From: Okc,OK
Default

In short:

Less overlap, more low end power & better idle quality

More overlap, better mid-top end power & worse idle quality.
Reply
Old Oct 19, 2011 | 04:18 PM
  #3  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default

Right i get that much. Im just wondering how I had the nice choppy race sounding idle with the -1 overlap
Reply
Old Oct 19, 2011 | 05:29 PM
  #4  
MM98's Avatar
TECH Fanatic
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
iTrader: (13)
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 2
From: Okc,OK
Default

The 114 lsa has effect on idle as it lowers vacum vs the stock 116 lsa... Did you use the same tuner on both cams? A good tuner can make a big cam sound pretty tame.
Reply
Old Oct 19, 2011 | 06:26 PM
  #5  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default

I understand the LSA and all. Im just not understanding a negative overlap. or what I would interpret as one degree short of actually overlapping. I actually asked him to make it choppy for me. And it is much choppier than it was just not right off that bat. You have to really listen to it and on video it sounds very close to what it did before. Thats not a problem just curious why since I added 16 degrees of overlap
Reply
Old Oct 19, 2011 | 10:56 PM
  #6  
99Bluz28's Avatar
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (35)
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,705
Likes: 11
From: C. V., Kalifornia
Default

Was the idle speed set to the same rpm for both cams?
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 09:18 AM
  #7  
s346k's Avatar
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: johnson co.
Default

Originally Posted by Whiteaw57
I understand the LSA and all. Im just not understanding a negative overlap. or what I would interpret as one degree short of actually overlapping. I actually asked him to make it choppy for me. And it is much choppier than it was just not right off that bat. You have to really listen to it and on video it sounds very close to what it did before. Thats not a problem just curious why since I added 16 degrees of overlap
the tune can play a big role on how radically a cam will idle. there is no reason a cam with -1* overlap should, would, or could sound like one with 15*. the cam with more overlap will lope harder and at higher rpms, as well. instead of smoothing out at 1300 or whatever like the old one did it probably sounds pretty damn rowdy.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 10:12 AM
  #8  
Higgs Boson's Avatar
10 Second Club
15 Year Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
Likes: 2
From: Texas Hill Country
Default

I agree. You can tune a 15 deg overlap cam to sound like a 0 overlap cam. You can also tune the 0 overlap cam to be very smooth, yours just wasn't, apparently.

there are lots of timing and airflow tables that are used to make a car idle smoothly. bottom line is, All things equal, the bigger cam will have more trouble holding a steady idle RPM, and that's all lope/chop is.
Reply
LS1 Tech Stories

The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time

story-0

Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin

 Verdad Gallardo
story-1

6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-2

Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-4

Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!

 
story-5

Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes

 Verdad Gallardo
story-7

Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power

 Verdad Gallardo
story-8

10 Camaros You Should Never Buy

 
story-9

10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 11:46 AM
  #9  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default

I think its a case here of a better tuner (my guess tune with the bigass cam drove better than the final with the small one) a few more RPM at idle, (i think its roughly about 100 RPM higher), and maybe I'm just crazy and want the thing to hit like my life long goal of building a motor to sound like a Nascar car. Which I'm in the process of doing btw. It definitely pulls harder and longer. It definitely drives a bit bigger. and revs quicker also. Not sure it thats in the tune also. Could be due to coming off of a higher idle speed im guessing. Im not complaining at all by any means more just extremely curious as to just exactly how overlap works
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 02:00 PM
  #10  
darkvader0's Avatar
Staging Lane
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Default

The only thing I wanted to add was to make sure you are aware that the -1* overlap is measured at 0.050" lift. At 0.006" lift the overlap on that same cam will be much higher. In fact, I think even the tamest of cams will have a pretty significant positive overlap at 0.006.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 02:06 PM
  #11  
s346k's Avatar
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: johnson co.
Default

Overlap itself is the occurance of both valves being open at the same time.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 04:25 PM
  #12  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default

I used an overlap calculator but the math is not dependent on a location on the cam. I think you're thinking here of duration
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 04:42 PM
  #13  
garygnu's Avatar
TECH Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 4
Default

+ cam over lap degrees,how many degrees both intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time bleeding off cylinder pressure.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 05:26 PM
  #14  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default

Yeah i get that. I guess im just overthinking this too much. Does overlap equal power? or does it just shift the RPM band up? Or does it do both? haha
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2011 | 07:47 PM
  #15  
s346k's Avatar
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,433
Likes: 1
From: johnson co.
Default

both.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ing/index.html

read.
Reply
Old Oct 21, 2011 | 11:36 AM
  #16  
Whiteaw57's Avatar
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
From: Salisbury, NC
Default

youre the man haha
Reply
Old Oct 21, 2011 | 02:59 PM
  #17  
99Bluz28's Avatar
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (35)
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,705
Likes: 11
From: C. V., Kalifornia
Default

If the idle is set even 100rpm higher than before that'll make a noticeable difference in the lope you hear.
Reply




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 AM.

story-0
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin

Slideshow: This heavily modified 1971 Camaro mixes classic muscle car styling with a fifth-generation Camaro interior and modern LS3 power.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:06:42


VIEW MORE
story-1
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them

Slideshow: From wobbling harmonic balancers to failed EBCMs, these are the issues that define long-term C5 ownership and what repairs typically involve.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-07 18:44:57


VIEW MORE
story-2
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph

Slideshow: A modern Camaro transformed into a retro icon, this limited-run "Bandit" build blends nostalgia with brute force in a way few revivals manage.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-21 13:57:02


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked

Slideshow: Cadillac didn't just crash the high-performance luxury vehicle party, it showed up loud, supercharged, and occasionally a little unhinged...

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-16 10:05:15


VIEW MORE
story-4
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!

Slideshow: Top ten most powerful Chevy trucks ever made

By | 2026-03-25 09:22:26


VIEW MORE
story-5
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP

Slideshow: Hennessey has turned the Silverado ZR2 into a 700-hp off-road monster with supercharged V8 power and a limited production run.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-24 18:57:52


VIEW MORE
story-6
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes

Slideshow: A one-off sports car that looks like a vintage Italian exotic-but hides a C6 Corvette underneath-just sold for the price of a new mid-engine Corvette.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-23 18:53:41


VIEW MORE
story-7
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power

Slideshow: A heavily reworked 1972 K5 Blazer swaps its off-road roots for a low-slung street-focused build with modern V8 power.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-09 18:08:45


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy

Slideshow: There are thousands of used Camaros on the market but we think you should avoid these 10

By | 2026-02-17 17:09:30


VIEW MORE
story-9
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die

Slideshows: Which one of these myths do you believe?

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-01-28 18:10:11


VIEW MORE