Cam talk - good performance AND driveability
12-20-2011, 09:28 AM
#21
What kind of dyno was this on I realize dynos are just tuning tools but most z06's and people who do ls6 swaps end up with around 390-400 whp with a complete full bolt on ls6 swap.
12-20-2011, 03:14 PM
#23
They do exist 400whp isn't uncommon but i also cant say that the dynos werent a little happy. But if 385ish whp or just about 400 is your goal an ls6 should be able to attain that with bolt ons.. My ls6 swap with bolt ons through an auto just made 370 on a mustang dyno. A cam only ls6 should be comfortably over 400whp esdpecially through and m6 usually they are around 425whp.
just a few examples..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...o-numbers.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnPjBAecVNw
not trying to be a dick but 365 with full bolt ons through an m6 is a tad low
just a few examples..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...o-numbers.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnPjBAecVNw
not trying to be a dick but 365 with full bolt ons through an m6 is a tad low
12-20-2011, 03:59 PM
#24
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The engine didn't have many miles on it. Some people say that makes a difference, IDK. It has <3,000 miles on it and it has sat since June 2010
12-20-2011, 06:31 PM
#25
12-20-2011, 06:50 PM
#27
that is also a good cam for his setup^. personally I'd have geoff or patrickg spec a cam for you as they will take into consideration all of our goals. again I'm also partial to futrals grinds particularly the f13 i posted above i really encourage you to take a look at it, it keeps the lift on the lower side but still has a nice lope, makes great power, and will drive very civilized when tuned correctly.
12-20-2011, 07:04 PM
#28
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that is also a good cam for his setup^. personally I'd have geoff or patrickg spec a cam for you as they will take into consideration all of our goals. again I'm also partial to futrals grinds particularly the f13 i posted above i really encourage you to take a look at it, it keeps the lift on the lower side but still has a nice lope, makes great power, and will drive very civilized when tuned correctly.
Geoff was quite helpful.
12-20-2011, 10:11 PM
#29
I would like to make a comment about the high lift cams and valve train.
I just had one of my CNC Lingenfelter heads repaired because of leak that developed due a crack in the intake port.
While in the shop, I had them check out the valve springs. They have 20,000 miles and want to make sure they were OK.
The cam I am running is the Lingenfelter GT11. The specs are 215/231 duration with .631"/.644" lift. The springs are Patriot Gold rated at .650" lift. I hear a lot of comments about this cam being too much for the springs.
To my surprise, all the springs on the repaired head check out exactly on their original new rating. I was ready to buy new springs, but the shop said they were fine.
Today's springs are much improved. If I raced my car, I am sure the situation would be different. While I am not afraid to rev it to 6500 rpm, I don't drive it that hard, so that probably had something to do with it.
If you have CNC or aftermarket heads with higher flow, then get a higher lift cam. Today, .600" + cams are acceptable with good quality springs.
I just had one of my CNC Lingenfelter heads repaired because of leak that developed due a crack in the intake port.
While in the shop, I had them check out the valve springs. They have 20,000 miles and want to make sure they were OK.
The cam I am running is the Lingenfelter GT11. The specs are 215/231 duration with .631"/.644" lift. The springs are Patriot Gold rated at .650" lift. I hear a lot of comments about this cam being too much for the springs.
To my surprise, all the springs on the repaired head check out exactly on their original new rating. I was ready to buy new springs, but the shop said they were fine.
Today's springs are much improved. If I raced my car, I am sure the situation would be different. While I am not afraid to rev it to 6500 rpm, I don't drive it that hard, so that probably had something to do with it.
If you have CNC or aftermarket heads with higher flow, then get a higher lift cam. Today, .600" + cams are acceptable with good quality springs.
12-20-2011, 11:27 PM
#31
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: STL
Posts: 1,764
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talk to PatrickG and/or Geoff @ EPS. PatG spec'd mine and the specs went straight to Geoff for the grind. Just out of curiosity I asked Geoff how much difference there usually is when he specs a cam and when PatG specs one, he told me some people get specs from PatG and then without telling him has him spec them a cam too. He said they are very close and when you factor everything in about the car that the cam specs needed come out to be pretty specific / obvious.
Custom grinds are the same price @ EPS as what you'll pay for a new off of the shelf grind, so why not spend 10 minutes on the phone with Geoff(who is very helpful) and have him tell you exactly what you need?
Wow wonder if I said "specs" enough?
Custom grinds are the same price @ EPS as what you'll pay for a new off of the shelf grind, so why not spend 10 minutes on the phone with Geoff(who is very helpful) and have him tell you exactly what you need?
Wow wonder if I said "specs" enough?
12-20-2011, 11:51 PM
#32
12 Second Club
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 707
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see you already have a cam and I'm about to make my selection as well. My first Ls car had the classic 224/224 563/563 on a 112 lsa, wasn't tuned very well. Not to go into too many boring details but it was in a WS6 and I ran 12.70 terrible street manners in my subjective opinion.
I put a 228/230 588/592 cant remember in my Corvette I ran 12.30, put on a set of 59cc Patriot heads and ran an 11.80 I ended up buying software and tuning this one. It had pretty good street manners. Probably the tuner, only mistake I made was taking off the cats. I'll never do that again.
Now I find myself getting ready to do something with my 02 WS6. It's been a struggle because it only has 14k miles. I decided hell with it, I'm not keeping it with low miles for the next guy, life's too short. I'm thinking I want to try something different this time. Probably going to leave on my factory exhaust and try one of those wide LSA cams, like the TR Cheatr cam with a nice set of heads. This time around I want a smooth idle, no stinking fuel fumes and nice broad powerband. 11's would be nice but I'm sure it probably won't happen. I've learned to tune enough to keep my car safe and have nice drive ability.
I put a 228/230 588/592 cant remember in my Corvette I ran 12.30, put on a set of 59cc Patriot heads and ran an 11.80 I ended up buying software and tuning this one. It had pretty good street manners. Probably the tuner, only mistake I made was taking off the cats. I'll never do that again.
Now I find myself getting ready to do something with my 02 WS6. It's been a struggle because it only has 14k miles. I decided hell with it, I'm not keeping it with low miles for the next guy, life's too short. I'm thinking I want to try something different this time. Probably going to leave on my factory exhaust and try one of those wide LSA cams, like the TR Cheatr cam with a nice set of heads. This time around I want a smooth idle, no stinking fuel fumes and nice broad powerband. 11's would be nice but I'm sure it probably won't happen. I've learned to tune enough to keep my car safe and have nice drive ability.
Last edited by Droptopws6; 12-20-2011 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Spelling
12-21-2011, 08:16 AM
#33
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^ I'm glad someone actually read the thread and saw that I already bought a cam.
Here's the dyno chart for the LS6, right after it was installed. Turns out the engine still has the break-in oil in it.....it was only in the car for 2 weeks before the accident according to the post dates on the local f-body boards.
I'm not going to worry myself too much with dyno numbers. Every dyno reads different. The true comparison comes down to the track.
Here's the dyno chart for the LS6, right after it was installed. Turns out the engine still has the break-in oil in it.....it was only in the car for 2 weeks before the accident according to the post dates on the local f-body boards.
I'm not going to worry myself too much with dyno numbers. Every dyno reads different. The true comparison comes down to the track.
12-22-2011, 08:22 AM
#36
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought so...but before this turns into a dyno numbers war, everyone will get different numbers. I had a hard time believing that an LS6 with bolt-ons would put down what cam'd LS6's do 
I've done a lot of searching on here and I've found anywhere from 390whp to 440whp on a cam-only LS6, dependent on how aggressive the cam is.
I've done a lot of searching on here and I've found anywhere from 390whp to 440whp on a cam-only LS6, dependent on how aggressive the cam is.
12-22-2011, 09:07 AM
#37
I thought so...but before this turns into a dyno numbers war, everyone will get different numbers. I had a hard time believing that an LS6 with bolt-ons would put down what cam'd LS6's do
I've done a lot of searching on here and I've found anywhere from 390whp to 440whp on a cam-only LS6, dependent on how aggressive the cam is.
I've done a lot of searching on here and I've found anywhere from 390whp to 440whp on a cam-only LS6, dependent on how aggressive the cam is.
12-22-2011, 09:45 AM
#38
On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the F13 in mine as a daily driver and it matches up perfectly with the 4.10's. I picked up 47 hp with it which i was more than happy with for a mid-sized cam. I have an idle clip in my sig if you want to hear what it sounds like.
12-23-2011, 12:17 AM
#39
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sacramento Ca
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Geoff seems to be the man when it comes to cam selection so im sure you'll be happy with your selection. I want that streetsweeper HT cam very badly, maybe on a 113 LSA though, 111 seems a lil bit too radical
12-23-2011, 09:11 AM
#40
Sounds like youve suffered from a cam that was too big. I too hate HUGE cams, I had one...it sucked, made it hard to drive, no brakes, etc.....
I love finding the correct camshaft....this is a great thread topic that has realistic thought out goals.
Who told you that? .600" isnt some magical tipping point, in fact reliability has much more to do with system component selection, which results in a stable valvetrain and good reliability.
Dual springs arent the correct component in this situation, a good beehive is the correct spring here. A dual spring with too much load, will actually make you loose lift. They are also heavy and can help lead to valvetrain instability. Yes, spring weight matters. Plus dual springs would be a mile from coil bind, another negative for reliability and valvetrain stability.
I ran a Comp LSR cam 219 @ .050 cam and it made 400rwhp and ran 11.90s in my 6.0L, it was a breeze to drive, pulled to 6500RPM and was extrememly fun all the time because it was properly sized.
When deciding between two camshafts, I alway error to the smaller. You could step yours up a bit. I would do an LSL or EPS intake lobe, and and LXL exhaust lobe to help quiet the valvtrain.
Sizes; Somthing between 219-224 on the intake, 224-230 on the exhaust. LSA something around 112-113. Its a very safe ballpark that will get you what you close to what you want. If you want to be sure you make your goals your cam has to be bigger and start sacraficing. Or you get better, properly sized, heads and FAST intake and not sacrafice. (see sig quote)
I love finding the correct camshaft....this is a great thread topic that has realistic thought out goals.
Who told you that? .600" isnt some magical tipping point, in fact reliability has much more to do with system component selection, which results in a stable valvetrain and good reliability.
Dual springs arent the correct component in this situation, a good beehive is the correct spring here. A dual spring with too much load, will actually make you loose lift. They are also heavy and can help lead to valvetrain instability. Yes, spring weight matters. Plus dual springs would be a mile from coil bind, another negative for reliability and valvetrain stability.
I ran a Comp LSR cam 219 @ .050 cam and it made 400rwhp and ran 11.90s in my 6.0L, it was a breeze to drive, pulled to 6500RPM and was extrememly fun all the time because it was properly sized.
When deciding between two camshafts, I alway error to the smaller. You could step yours up a bit. I would do an LSL or EPS intake lobe, and and LXL exhaust lobe to help quiet the valvtrain.
Sizes; Somthing between 219-224 on the intake, 224-230 on the exhaust. LSA something around 112-113. Its a very safe ballpark that will get you what you close to what you want. If you want to be sure you make your goals your cam has to be bigger and start sacraficing. Or you get better, properly sized, heads and FAST intake and not sacrafice. (see sig quote)
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.