Cam Selection...Stock Stall...(Please Look)
You want to vastly open your options? Get a very small converter. I recommend a PTC 2800. If you didn't tell him it was in there he would probably never notice it.
Why?
1. GFs old car had an ls6 cam in it.. Even that cam pushed on the brakes at red lights. It made the car not enjoyable for us to drive. I will NEVER recommend anything other than a stock cam for a stock converter because of this reason alone. A small 2800 converter would make the car SO much more enjoyable to drive.
2. A 2800 is so small (only 1000RPMs or so over factory) that he wouldn't even notice it after he put 2-300 miles on it. Once at 40mph it would love and would drive IDENTICAL to stock. Under that, it will take a couple more hundred RPMs for the same rate of acceleration. My GF after a couple days of driving didn't even notice her 3200 she had in her Trans Am.. She did notice it was more pleasant sitting still at red lights and stop signs. She didn't want a converter because she didn't want to make driveability worse, she listened to me and was very thankful.
3. The performance gain will be amazing... At 525$ shipped with a cooler you can't really beat it.
You said you didn't want to sacrifice driveability but yet you want a cam and no converter. A cam will make a car not fun to drive.. A cam and a converter, absolute blast.
There is a VERY good reason people (usually experience "been there done that" guys) are anti cam with no converter.
Why?
1. GFs old car had an ls6 cam in it.. Even that cam pushed on the brakes at red lights. It made the car not enjoyable for us to drive. I will NEVER recommend anything other than a stock cam for a stock converter because of this reason alone. A small 2800 converter would make the car SO much more enjoyable to drive.
2. A 2800 is so small (only 1000RPMs or so over factory) that he wouldn't even notice it after he put 2-300 miles on it. Once at 40mph it would love and would drive IDENTICAL to stock. Under that, it will take a couple more hundred RPMs for the same rate of acceleration. My GF after a couple days of driving didn't even notice her 3200 she had in her Trans Am.. She did notice it was more pleasant sitting still at red lights and stop signs. She didn't want a converter because she didn't want to make driveability worse, she listened to me and was very thankful.
3. The performance gain will be amazing... At 525$ shipped with a cooler you can't really beat it.
You said you didn't want to sacrifice driveability but yet you want a cam and no converter. A cam will make a car not fun to drive.. A cam and a converter, absolute blast.
There is a VERY good reason people (usually experience "been there done that" guys) are anti cam with no converter.
Agreed with the been there done that lol.
Put a hot cam in my lt1 z28 and it sucked driving that thing around without a stall with it pulling on the brakes and bucking. After I put in a 2600 stall the car was much more fun to drive and I would never thinking of putting a cam in before a stall. I always do stalls long before cam since than. So put the cam in for him and than we can wait for you to get back on here and ask for stall recomendations because he is tired of the car pulling through the brakes. You can get a 2600-2800 or 3000-3200 Circle D converter for $400 shipped and a good cooler for $55. So spend $460 and you can have a quality converter.
Put a hot cam in my lt1 z28 and it sucked driving that thing around without a stall with it pulling on the brakes and bucking. After I put in a 2600 stall the car was much more fun to drive and I would never thinking of putting a cam in before a stall. I always do stalls long before cam since than. So put the cam in for him and than we can wait for you to get back on here and ask for stall recomendations because he is tired of the car pulling through the brakes. You can get a 2600-2800 or 3000-3200 Circle D converter for $400 shipped and a good cooler for $55. So spend $460 and you can have a quality converter.
You want to vastly open your options? Get a very small converter. I recommend a PTC 2800. If you didn't tell him it was in there he would probably never notice it.
Why?
1. GFs old car had an ls6 cam in it.. Even that cam pushed on the brakes at red lights. It made the car not enjoyable for us to drive. I will NEVER recommend anything other than a stock cam for a stock converter because of this reason alone. A small 2800 converter would make the car SO much more enjoyable to drive.
2. A 2800 is so small (only 1000RPMs or so over factory) that he wouldn't even notice it after he put 2-300 miles on it. Once at 40mph it would love and would drive IDENTICAL to stock. Under that, it will take a couple more hundred RPMs for the same rate of acceleration. My GF after a couple days of driving didn't even notice her 3200 she had in her Trans Am.. She did notice it was more pleasant sitting still at red lights and stop signs. She didn't want a converter because she didn't want to make driveability worse, she listened to me and was very thankful.
3. The performance gain will be amazing... At 525$ shipped with a cooler you can't really beat it.
You said you didn't want to sacrifice driveability but yet you want a cam and no converter. A cam will make a car not fun to drive.. A cam and a converter, absolute blast.
There is a VERY good reason people (usually experience "been there done that" guys) are anti cam with no converter.
Why?
1. GFs old car had an ls6 cam in it.. Even that cam pushed on the brakes at red lights. It made the car not enjoyable for us to drive. I will NEVER recommend anything other than a stock cam for a stock converter because of this reason alone. A small 2800 converter would make the car SO much more enjoyable to drive.
2. A 2800 is so small (only 1000RPMs or so over factory) that he wouldn't even notice it after he put 2-300 miles on it. Once at 40mph it would love and would drive IDENTICAL to stock. Under that, it will take a couple more hundred RPMs for the same rate of acceleration. My GF after a couple days of driving didn't even notice her 3200 she had in her Trans Am.. She did notice it was more pleasant sitting still at red lights and stop signs. She didn't want a converter because she didn't want to make driveability worse, she listened to me and was very thankful.
3. The performance gain will be amazing... At 525$ shipped with a cooler you can't really beat it.
You said you didn't want to sacrifice driveability but yet you want a cam and no converter. A cam will make a car not fun to drive.. A cam and a converter, absolute blast.
There is a VERY good reason people (usually experience "been there done that" guys) are anti cam with no converter.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 9
From: Raleigh, NC
Reccomended camshafts of interest to me for category: Automotive, High Torque, good economy, idle, overall performance:
COMP 54-412-11 (212.0/218.0 0.522/0.529 114LSA)
COMP 54-424-11 (212.0/218.0 0.558/0.563 115LSA)
COMP 54-451-11 (208.0/212.0 0.554/0.558 115LSA)
Thanks Gary
I downloaded camquest (Very cool tool), below is some info from that software:
Reccomended camshafts of interest to me for category: Automotive, High Torque, good economy, idle, overall performance:
COMP 54-412-11 (212.0/218.0 0.522/0.529 114LSA)
COMP 54-424-11 (212.0/218.0 0.558/0.563 115LSA)
COMP 54-451-11 (208.0/212.0 0.554/0.558 115LSA)
Thanks Gary
Reccomended camshafts of interest to me for category: Automotive, High Torque, good economy, idle, overall performance:
COMP 54-412-11 (212.0/218.0 0.522/0.529 114LSA)
COMP 54-424-11 (212.0/218.0 0.558/0.563 115LSA)
COMP 54-451-11 (208.0/212.0 0.554/0.558 115LSA)
Thanks Gary
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
If you're running stock manifolds and want very smooth street manners, I would go with something more like this: 218/226 .598/.570 116LSA +4 custom Patrick G cam. That would use EPS lobes on the intake and XE high lift lobes for the exhaust. This would give long spring life with 918 beehives and give some nice power gains while working well with the stock stall.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 9
From: Raleigh, NC
If you're running stock manifolds and want very smooth street manners, I would go with something more like this: 218/226 .598/.570 116LSA +4 custom Patrick G cam. That would use EPS lobes on the intake and XE high lift lobes for the exhaust. This would give long spring life with 918 beehives and give some nice power gains while working well with the stock stall.
An ls6 pushes on the brakes and your 224/230 cam doesn't push at all?
Impossible.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 9
From: Raleigh, NC
Problem with getting a cam with a wide 115-116 LSA in the 224-228 range is that it's going to have pretty soft torque below 3000 rpm. If you had a stall, that wouldn't be too much of an issue, but with the stock torque converter, you're going to need really strong torque in the 2000-3000 rpm range. Otherwise, you're going to be a slug off the line and be slower than stock for the first 2-3 seconds of the run.
Hi Patrick I found this quote from you in another thread, does the low end torque loss apply to this camshaft?
What would the shift point be on this camshaft (would like to retain stock)?
Thanks!
-Nick
Last edited by niphilli; Jan 10, 2012 at 09:53 AM.
The wider LSA does not hurt you as bad when you have less duration. My 218 cam has an 3-7 degree earlier intake valve closing point compared to a 224 116LSA cam, which increases dynamic compression and raises low rpm torque.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
IMO, lemons12 made some very good points; don't totally write off a slightly higher stall TC (2800-3200 range). I'd do some research and contact some of the sponsors, at least just to educate yourself so you have a better understanding of stalls.
http://www.converter.cc/
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/st...lt1%202800.htm
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/st...lt1%203000.htm
http://www.circledspecialties.com/
http://www.circledspecialties.com/p-...converter.aspx
http://www.converter.cc/
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/st...lt1%202800.htm
http://www.converter.cc/product_p/st...lt1%203000.htm
http://www.circledspecialties.com/
http://www.circledspecialties.com/p-...converter.aspx
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Jan 10, 2012 at 02:11 PM.
I'm sure he fucked the tune.... He had my Ms4 car running perfect, DD... No /surging/dying/started in 20 degrees or 90 degrees first start/etc etc.. We all know how much harder ls6 cams are to tune than Ms4s.
Funny you say that. My cars are all tuned by pcmforless. Like lemons said the car pulling through the brakes has nothing to do with the tune!