Which lifters for SILENT valve-train???
The underlying issue is that the lifters should not be bleeding down as quickly as they are. Viscosity will help to "mask" the issue, but is exactly that. What I've learned from Havoc40.....without going into detail, or putting words into Havoc40's mouth.... is that the issue is indeed mechanical in nature. I'm taking from what I've learned for that to mean that quality control vs/design spec suffers significantly with these lifters.
I'm looking into other options at this point.
There is a LOT more to oils than viscosity and the viscosity on the label simply means they fall into that RANGE.
Seriously try a different oil each oilchange for a few intervals and see if something quiets things down. Long as you are using API rated oils in a viscosity near what the owner's manual calls for you will not hurt anything and you might just find a cheap and easy way to resolve this..
Seriously try a different oil each oilchange for a few intervals and see if something quiets things down. Long as you are using API rated oils in a viscosity near what the owner's manual calls for you will not hurt anything and you might just find a cheap and easy way to resolve this..
There is a LOT more to oils than viscosity and the viscosity on the label simply means they fall into that RANGE.
Seriously try a different oil each oilchange for a few intervals and see if something quiets things down. Long as you are using API rated oils in a viscosity near what the owner's manual calls for you will not hurt anything and you might just find a cheap and easy way to resolve this..
Seriously try a different oil each oilchange for a few intervals and see if something quiets things down. Long as you are using API rated oils in a viscosity near what the owner's manual calls for you will not hurt anything and you might just find a cheap and easy way to resolve this..
I'm kinda having an issue with the mechanical aspect of what's happening right now though. As I understand it, the lifters are all bleeding off at various rates.....some enough to bottom the lifter piston and cause noise, some not. Which means....quite literally....various valve lifts. Call me picky, but this is a big issue to me....one that will be an even bigger issue once I'm ready to install a substantially larger cam (which will eventually happen).While trying different oils might quiet things up a bit, the overall effect....it seems to me....is that I'm putting a band-aid on a bigger problem. That bigger problem being that basically, the ls7 lifters are considerably out of tolerance compared to design specification (which I have on good authority) and are bleeding down at different rates. I suppose that I should have researched a bit more about lifters prior to my build....but hey, "live and learn" sometimes. I'm learning that there is indeed a reason why companies like Morel,Comp,Johnson,Crower,Scorpion, etc. charge what they do for some of their product lines. Better materials, tighter tolerances, attention to detail and better QC is what you're paying for.
Again, maybe I'm being too picky.....but I don't want to go through this again. After going through this round of BS, it's safe to say that I'll never be buying OEM lifters again. It would have been cheaper in the long run to just buy the "good stuff" from the beginning.
i have not had a problem with the lifters. you also have to consider the cam you have and the lobe it runs on. you are not always hearing the lifters but are hearing the valves open and close on the high lift high ramp rate cams. the LS1 is an aluminum block and resonates sound alot more. the intake is only plastic and does not mask the sound as well. idk if the iron block guys have the same problem, but with the cam i have i dont have any more valvetrain noise then i did when i threw longtubes on there with stock cam.
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9 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
I have built 4 ls motors and never had a problem. I have also shimmed the rocker arms by drilling small holes in the metal and placing them under the mounts depending on the head gasket used. I used comp R hyd roller lifters and set the preload at .050. Oh well.
part of what I am saying here is the poor choice in oil is a contributing factor. RP works fine for race vehicles with frequent changes but I have never seen any UOAs that found it to be appropriate for extended street intervals. It is a marketing product much more than a quality product. The old joke used to be "it shears out of grade pouring from the bottle" which is referring to how rapidly it sheared down(molecular level) and became thin. I know they have improved that some since but it still is not worth it's price and IMO is still a contributing factor.
Consider that a stock ls6 spring is 90lbs @1.8 installed. A 918 spring is 130lbs @1.8 installed. I believe this is the biggest contributing factor. And just to be clear...the ls7 lifter is not exactly "poorly designed".....just not manufactured very closely to the spec that GM calls for, as I'm learning. It's a QC issue....one that I'm done with. Sometimes, they are in spec....sometimes, they are not. I don't want to gamble again.
part of what I am saying here is the poor choice in oil is a contributing factor. RP works fine for race vehicles with frequent changes but I have never seen any UOAs that found it to be appropriate for extended street intervals. It is a marketing product much more than a quality product. The old joke used to be "it shears out of grade pouring from the bottle" which is referring to how rapidly it sheared down(molecular level) and became thin. I know they have improved that some since but it still is not worth it's price and IMO is still a contributing factor.
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, Michigan
I have been using Amsoil 10w30 but recently changed to there Z-rod Formula as recommended for a cammed vehicle by a rep at Amsoil. I did notice an audible difference. It is quieter than it was but not by alot. normally mine would seem to make more noise once it was warmed up.. but with the Z-rod formula.. it was harder to actually notice the transition. Mine would be slightly different from day to day... kinda weird... some days being louder than the other...
I agree with what the other guys have said though... change the brand or viscosity to one that may be quieter. I've used Royal purple once before, and the audible difference was clear as a bell, I noticed a lot louder valvetrain using it...
btw, i'm also using ls7 lifters..
I agree with what the other guys have said though... change the brand or viscosity to one that may be quieter. I've used Royal purple once before, and the audible difference was clear as a bell, I noticed a lot louder valvetrain using it...
btw, i'm also using ls7 lifters..
Last edited by Dummybait; Jan 31, 2012 at 11:52 AM.
I would use it before RP but again any API oil is going to do the job so try a few. Additive packages vary, viscosity varies within a "rating" more than most would ever believe. Within one brand a 0w-30 can be thicker at operating temps than their 10w-30, M1 was like that for a long time.
You can get creative many "diesel" oils are API rated for gas engines if you look at the back of the bottle.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 157
Likes: 2
Thermal expansion of the lifter and the properties of the oil at operating temp are what's causing those differences. On top of a part that was built at or around the lower end of the leakdown specification. Kinda weird Amsoil is having a noticeable differences from day to day, though. Something I haven't witnessed before with Amsoil. Regardless, physics still apply here.
I'm a die hard Amsoil fan and user. I used to be a dealer back in my dirt bike/4wheeler racing days (for 2 stroke oil, Blue Marble shines). It really is great stuff that I've seen work some miracles. I'm sure others have seen their lubes of choice do miracles as well, but Amsoil has shined for me. I still use their products daily on cars, machines, and equipment.
I'm a die hard Amsoil fan and user. I used to be a dealer back in my dirt bike/4wheeler racing days (for 2 stroke oil, Blue Marble shines). It really is great stuff that I've seen work some miracles. I'm sure others have seen their lubes of choice do miracles as well, but Amsoil has shined for me. I still use their products daily on cars, machines, and equipment.
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, Michigan
Thermal expansion of the lifter and the properties of the oil at operating temp are what's causing those differences. On top of a part that was built at or around the lower end of the leakdown specification. Kinda weird Amsoil is having a noticeable differences from day to day, though. Something I haven't witnessed before with Amsoil. Regardless, physics still apply here.
I'm a die hard Amsoil fan and user. I used to be a dealer back in my dirt bike/4wheeler racing days (for 2 stroke oil, Blue Marble shines). It really is great stuff that I've seen work some miracles. I'm sure others have seen their lubes of choice do miracles as well, but Amsoil has shined for me. I still use their products daily on cars, machines, and equipment.
I'm a die hard Amsoil fan and user. I used to be a dealer back in my dirt bike/4wheeler racing days (for 2 stroke oil, Blue Marble shines). It really is great stuff that I've seen work some miracles. I'm sure others have seen their lubes of choice do miracles as well, but Amsoil has shined for me. I still use their products daily on cars, machines, and equipment.
Just as an update......changed from RP to Valvoline 5w30.....flushed it twice and drive it roughly 200 miles....only quieted down by about 50%.......new lifters are now on order.
I was running RHOADS lifters for a while and people would ask me what was wrong with my car.
It was that noisy.
I decided that if I was gonna yank the heads (again) I would bite the bullet and I got MORELS.
With 0.007 preload they are quiet.
It was that noisy.
I decided that if I was gonna yank the heads (again) I would bite the bullet and I got MORELS.
With 0.007 preload they are quiet.