deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Ok, just like the title says. What if a crank had a 58x reluctor wheel and was put in a gen 3 block? If using a gen 3 pcm, would it only need a Lingenfelter converter box? It probably won't need a ls2 timing cover with front cam sensor since the cam sensor can be used in the rear on a gen 3 block (gen 4 blocks don't have this provision). And the gen 3, valley knock sensors can be still used also, right? (gen 4 blocks have the knock sensors located on the side of the block rather than in the valley).

Basically, what i'm asking is can you run a 58 tooth reluctor in a gen 3 block and use all of the gen 3 sensor locations...only thing different is using a converter box that makes a gen 3 pcm compatible with a 58 tooth reluctor wheel?

Thanks in advance guys!

black06g85

iTrader: (6)

I don't see why not, but have never tried it.

deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm sure most people haven't done it but this is how my shortblock is set up right now. Really trying to avoid tearing the whole thing down just to install a 24x tooth reluctor wheel. Anyone else with info on this? Mods/sponsers?

mark21742

Yup, all you should need is the box!.....or you could have a shop swap out the reluctor rings, that might be a cheaper option....I take it your looking at putting an ls3 crank in or something like that to give you a stroker?

deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Mark, not trying to insult you in any way but not sure how much i can trust your info since a ls3 crank has the same stock stroke as every other stock crank, 3.622...which would not be considered a "stroker" crank with the exception of the ls7 crank. Anyone else with knowledge of the original question?

Thanks

mark21742

Ok...I knew one of the newer engines had a longer stroke, but couldn't remember off hand which one....thought it was the ls3, but been wrong before....I can't tell you off hand the bore/ stroke of the ls3/7, just know they are larger displacement

deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Totally understand bro! I'm no guru when it comes to these motors either, which is why i'm asking the question above. No one knows if a 58x reluctor will work with a gen III block and sensors, hunh?

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

The conversion box dummies the signal down, the computer doesn't care where the correct signal comes from. So yes you have your own answer, however you will need the newer crank pickup sensor. The old LS1 one will not read the 54 tooth wheel.

mark21742

$28 dollars for a reluctor ring....I'm on my phone so I can't see the good enough to see if it is one ring, or both. So you might need to buy two, then have the 58 tooth ting pulled off and new rings pressed on by a machine shop....this would be a cheaper option
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12559353/

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Yeah cheaper if you assume the machine shop works for free

Jason Haines @ LPE

You can't run the 58x crank with the Gen 3 V8 camshaft sensor location because the 58x crank has to be used with the signal pattern found on the timing gear used on 58x engines. That pattern is very different from the pattern on the rear reluctor on the camshaft itself.

Our 58x converter box needs that additional information to work properly and will not work if you mix the two signals. Just like GM we use the additional position information found on the un-even spaced multi-tooth timing gear reluctor to make up for the missing position information from the 58x crankshaft reluctor wheel.

The GM software/hardware will also not work if you mix the two.

If you want to use the rear block mounted camshaft sensor found on the Gen III engines then you need to run the 24x crankshaft reluctor. If you run the front timing cover mounted sensor you can run either crankshaft reluctor because timing gears exist with both patterns (but you still have to run the correct timing gear with the correct crankshaft reluctor wheel).

Also note that the crankshaft sensor itself is also reluctor wheel specific. You must use the 58x crankshaft sensor with the 58x reluctor and the 24x crankshaft sensor with the 24x reluctor wheel.

The front mounted camshaft speed sensor is not tooth count specific so the timing cover mounted camshaft position sensor is the same with either timing gear.

Our instructions for the trigger converter have pictures of the different components and GM part numbers and have a chart showing what model years used which parts.

joecar

So from what Jason said, to run the 58x CKP reluctor with the Gen III PCM, the OP needs these:
- LPE converter box (converts 58x/4x into 24x/1x),
- 58x CKP sensor,
- 4x cam sprocket (3 bolt hole),
- CMP sensor extension harness (correctly pinned) <--- do not use this

You will also need this:
- Gen IV timing cover (minus short sub-harness),


edit: see corrections above (per Jason's comment below)

Jason Haines @ LPE

The LPE converter box harness is designed to plug directly into the front timing cover camshaft sensor. Do NOT use an adapter harness or extension harness for the camshaft position sensor connection to our module. Also do not use the OEM short harness that is mounted on the timing cover on most Gen IV engines (connect our module directly to the sensor).

If this is an E40 ECM application (58x Gen IV engine replacing a 24x Gen IV engine) then you do need to use the LPE supplied adapter harness that goes between the LPE module and the ECM connection on the camshaft side. Examples of this ECM application would be 2005-2006 GTO, 2005 SSR, 2005 C6 Corvette.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Thanks for the correction LPE.

deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Thanks, Lpe and everyone else for the replies. One more question, willthe knock sensors in the valley still be able to work or do i have to drill and tap the block on the sides to install gen IV style knock sensors?

Thanks,
Dee

Jason Haines @ LPE

The short answer is you can use the existing valley mounted knock sensors in the stock location in your application.

In order for the older PCM to understand the knock sensor signals you must retain the same type of knock sensor normally used with that PCM/ECM. When a Gen IV block is installed in a vehicle that had a Gen III block we recommend installing the original Gen III knock sensors in the side of the block.

Your situation is not the normal 58x swap. Most people have an entire Gen IV engine so they can't use the valley mounted knock sensors since the Gen IV engines have no provisions for them in the valley. Since you still have a Gen III block, just leave the sensors where they are and connect them as normal to your PCM.

BTW - as someone else pointed out you will need a new LS2/LS3 type timing cover so you can install the front camshaft position sensor.

deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Got another question for you Sir! If i were to run a MSD 2-step, would your converter influence the type of two step i would have to buy also? Normally If you have a 24x reluctor wheel, you would run the MSD 6LS box which is designed for the ls1/ls6 (24 tooth reluctor). Is it safe to assume that since your converter box is giving my pcm the ability to read 58 teeth instead of 24 teeth, I will have to buy MSD's 6LS2 box (made for LS2, LS3 etc...58 tooth reluctor wheels)??? I think i have my answer, I'm just making sure it's correct...lol!

Thanks,
Dee

deeloc1

iTrader: (20)

Just noticed the LPE 2-step! It's compatible with 24x and 58x reluctors, correct? Maybe I'll get that one since it's cheaper than the MSD box and still gets the job done. Also, same question applies for your 2-step...would it have to be used in the 24x setting and the converter will do all of the work or would the LPE 2-step have to be ran in the 58x configuration?

Thanks,
Dee

Jason Haines @ LPE

From your question, I assume you aren't looking at using the MSD 2-step that just connects to the coil packs. If you are going to use the MSD (or the LPE) 2-steps that connect to the coil packs, only one version exists since the reluctor wheel count doesn't impact the signal at the coils (same coils and coil package signals for either engine design).

If you are looking at using the MSD ignition controller that also has a 2-step feature and connects to the crank and cam sensors themselves, we haven't tested that combination of parts. Thinking about what each module is expecting for sensor signal output, I would recommend trying the one for the 58x signals (the actual engine signals) but I can't tell you for sure if that will work.

Jason Haines @ LPE

Since our 2-steps (LNC-2000 and LNC-003) both connect to the coil packs connectors, they work with either 24x or 58x engines. The data coming from the ECM to fire the coils is the same for either one so no settings have to be changed etc between the two different engine configurations.