That's what I was thinking I was gonna go roller. I've seen a lot of big power builds use stock, upgraded rockers with the Comp kit and never have issues. That's not to say they can't fail either but I've seen TONS of shattered/broken aftermarket aluminum roller rockers...just Google broken ls1 roller rocker lol. And from what I've been told the stock, upgraded ones are lighter on the valve than the aluminum ones but that's just what I've been told when I was researching which way I wanted to go.

 

Rocker arm failure

 

Yes, when you put the Trunnion Kit in, count the number of needle bearings in one of the OEM bearing assemblies. I believe (if I recall correctly), that the stock bearings have 33 needles in each bearing assy (2 bearing assys per rocker arm = 66 total needles per rocker arm). So determine how many bearings have failed, and then figure out how many could have fell out and compare to how many you have found.

 

This is what the GM LS1 engineer had to say about their use of non-roller tip rockers on the LS1 if anyone is interested...

"GM Engineering looks at roller tips on the rockers as poor engineering. 1. You only use a small part of the roller. The rest is heavy and is extra weight on the valve train. 2. As a roller tip gets some miles on it, the roller axle starts to wear an egg shaped hole in the roller and it takes a set. IOW, the roller starts to slide back and forth over the valve tip instead of rolling. This contributes to valve guide wear. When roller tips are new, they work great but they suck when they get old.

The stock rocker tip has a 0.62" radius and it both slides and rolls across the valve tip. GM has an optimization program that optimizes the geometry so that slide is minimized and roll is maximized. It says a lot about the LS engine when you realize the valve train is net build. (non-adjustable) With all those components, there is no adjustment. You bolt everything down and you're there. Not so with the old SB. 20 years ago, you would have been called crazy to try building a net-build valve train. It couldn't be done without hand selecting matched components. The machines used to manufacture the LS parts are new and work so much better than the old SB machines."

 

I checked the various options and just wanted to mention that the deal to send your rockers in to have the new caged bearings replaced for 199 from Hinson is still going on. It is raining up here in the Seattle area and I don't have a good place to work on my vehicles, I don't even have room to store all of them, so will order the replacement bearings from Comp Cams and get the tool from Summit since it is so inexpensive and try to not drive the car and hope I can find all the missing bearings however many I find out are not still in the bearing race. If indeed the oil pickup screen will not allow them to circulate that would be very good. I am worried about them getting anywhere I can't find them, hoping they are inside the valve covers or somewhere visible if I have to take the pan off.

Thanks again to all that helped me out on this one. It is very much appreciated. T

 

Welcome dude. Ive got some "know it all" people I work with that crucified me for spending the little bit of money on the rocker upgrade but guys like you unfortunately proved my theory...CHEAP INSURANCE. Good luck man if you for somehow need help putting the rockers together PM me and ill do what I can but like i said just follow instructions the first few and its a fly by after that. When your done youll look at them and say "damn...that was it?" and wonder why so many people on here send theirs out to be done.And you can always sell the tool to someone on here to get your $40 back or keep it and do them for friends, or members on here for some extra $$. Good luck! Post back when your done.

 

Thanks very much. I did not even know this was an issue until it happened to me. Had I known I might have done it in advance. My motor is stock, low miles, well maintained and only occasionally driven really hard. So it is not as if I had done mods and added extra stress to the valve train. I took a look at my motor and the videos and it all looks easy enough. My biggest issue is having a lack of space to work on my vehicles. Nowhere flat to jack it up and being undercover. I am hoping for a break in the rain to get it done soon. I am going to go print out the All Data manual for the car at the local library for free which I had planned anyway. Need to know the torque spec for the bolts for one thing. I think it is 22lbs but that was for upgraded rockers so want to make sure I do it correctly. Finding all the missing bearings may likely be more difficult that doing the bearing upgrade which, especially using that tool seems pretty simple. I watched the video, though they were using a hydraulic press but it does not look like a big job or require indexing a new cam or require special tools or anything too bad. Just came at a bad time. I will PM you if I have any questions though and appreciate the offer. If nothing else when I am done. Thanks much!

 

The comp trunion kits I was buying last year came with two washers to install the bearings.

I would not pay $40 for a install tool. all you need it what they should be including in the kit.

with a small arbor press I could install a complete kit in less than 1 hour.

Tim

 

Well it was a good guess. And I am not sorry I am upgrading with the Comp Cams trunion bearing kit. BUT all the rocker arm bearings were intact, though some a bit loose so this will prevent that. What I did find was that two of the rocker arms have worn so two new rocker arms and push rods and two knew lifters since those are the bearings that I have found. Hopefully the cam lobes won't have been messed up.

Just thought I would post this for anyone else that has this issue. I can see if I can post the trunion needle bearings and the lifter bearings to show the difference which may help someone else identify them by size etc.. I thought taking the pic with the Domino as a size reference was sufficient but have to think there is a difference I can show with a tape measure or side by side etc.

Still appreciate all the help and still doing the trunion bearings, just not good new since it hurts financially although it is a darn good thing to get fixed and a great time to do it otherwise.

 

If those came from the lifter, I cant imagine the cam is any good

 

Well I certainly hope you are wrong. If circumstances were different I would consider using this as the time to add that GM cam that adds 45HP alone. But as funds are limited I don't think I can afford that. But will find out soon after I get the intake off and check things out. Already have someone looking for a couple new lifters and rocker arms and push rods. It is at least fortunate that I happen to be doing this at my friends shop who is a profession mechanic and helping me out with some of this. He has come across this before in an 8.1L motor and we will check out the cam.

So my hope is that I don't have to change the cam, though if I do and the money is even possible as well as the time he will allow me to take up a bay here, I could fix it and add some power. Otherwise I would just like others that have found these to consider the alternative and/or know about the difference in the way the bearings look or are sized. I sure had no idea which is why I made this post. I ran it by one of the LS1's original GM design engineers and he did not tell me I was wrong about the diagnosis so I assume the answer was the most common but perhaps it could let someone know there is another issue possible also.

In my opinion I think those trunion bearings should be upgraded anyway since it seems enough people have issues and the kit is cheap and relatively easy. If it is the lifter bearings then you will have to have done the same assembly already so you are not wasting time or money by doing the trunion grade but if you get there and there are no missing needle bearings this is probably it, so be prepared. If the cam is damaged then perhaps it might be a good time to install that cam or other valve train parts you were thinking about, or intake etc. as long as they are off. Just trying to share my misery to help someone else out if possible. I do appreciate these threads and everyones helping me with my motor issues though. It is a great forum to have.