Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (8)

TSP has stated countless times on this forum that the MS4 WILL NOT CLEAR with the larger valves installed in their heads. They recommend either clearancing the pistons (best option), or they can sink the valves for you when you purchase the heads.

Who are these "reputable individuals"?

bigbadblack93z

iTrader: (8)

advancing the cam will only make it worse if the intake was hitting

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

That sucks....I had to pull my head off for the same issue. Different reason and it was only 2 valves but it's still a big PIA!

joelster

I know that. Usually on a overrev or high rev condition it's the piston chasing the exhaust valve that hits. Most cams have more exhaust duration than intake duration. The intake valve cannot get ahead of the piston unless there is a TON of slop in the timing chain. I'm running between .040-.047" on my intake valves, zero issues.

bigbadblack93z

iTrader: (8)

.040 is super tight on the intake side. but like you said its all in the quality of parts. I more or less made my post because i didn't want someone to think that advancing the cam would be the cure all for not checking PTV.
you're method was to cure the delay in a lazy valvetrain, I see that now that i reread it.

Mr. Hyde

iTrader: (10)

I guess it's a moot point now since that motor is not in the car. But...3 years and 5K+ miles of beating the everliving **** out of it and no problems.

Sales4@Texas-Speed

iTrader: (4)

The magic stick cams are designed to be max effort cams for stock LS1s. They do fit, we have tested this MANY times. There are MANY in cars that don't hit when properly installed. There is no doubt these are large cams, they are designed that way. We see an average of .060-.065 clearance on these cams when properly installed.

427LS7HCI

TSP doesn't sink the valves unless you request it. There's your issue.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Not completely true....when you order a set of Stage 1 LS6 heads for a Magic Stick combo (as he did), we know to sink them and do so.

PREDATOR-Z

Hmmm, shouldn't that be the first hint that tolerances are too tight and pistons should be flycut??
IMO that is bad practice and a shop with your experience should know better and "teach" novices proper practice instead of just marketing.

boostedrides

iTrader: (2)

Very well put...............

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

Let's be clear that we're not the only head shop that cuts the valve job a bit deeper to get a bit better clearance. Anybody who thinks that is the case is very naive! And we're only talking about .010-.015" of extra clearance, nothing too crazy but on tight combos it can be a difference maker. Why crucify the shop who openly says what they're doing and gives over .070" of clearance with our heads/cam combos (when installed properly), when other shops' "max effort" camshafts have as little as .010-.030" PtoV clearance on stock long motors?

PREDATOR-Z

Gee, is this the wounded lamb syndrome??
Why? From my side because in 2004 I fell into your marketing traps and I was victim of your smoke screen. I had posted a thread about it way back then.
IIRC: 5.3L stage 2.5
1- Blocked water galley (cast imperfection (should have been cleaned up)
2- Retainer lodged in exhaust runner (thank Gawd I inspect my parts carefully)
3- 2.04 intake valves on 2.02 seats (smoke screen to get extra 5 cfm). yes you have since revised that practice but too late for me.
4- The heads flowed no where near the 300 advertised cfm on intake at .600 lift (highest was 287)

Since I live overseas, returning your product was not an option so I learned my lesson and it cost me extra to clean up all your gimmicks. Catch me once, all is good, catch me twice and I'm an idiot.

Perhaps you guys improved on your products lately but the fact remains, a few of us modders got and still get caught at this marketing game. Yes you guys (and majority of shops) are into this for the $$, but unless one is a novice and doesn't know any better; we as consumers pay the price (sometimes dearly).
After many years of operation and being relatively successful YOU should do away with those practices and be more forward with people. Most young/& non knowledgeable fans rely on you for good parts and tech help.

Look, I still recommend your cam kits but you could develop THE BEST head on the market, I wouldn't touch it even if it was free.
I still use your cam grinds (custom). Those are good value and quality. We just disagree on some issues and using mammoth cams without spilling the complete truth to the customer is one of those issues that you could handle better instead of always and foremost just try to make the sale.

Oh while I'm at it on cams, why don't you explain the truth about using a LSK lobe for street on TV3 and MS4. Explain how stock heads handle that lift? They simply can't and it is just another gimmick (show everyone how much cfm increase in flow from .600 to .650 lift on stock LS1 heads).

And regarding other shops!
Your comments and logic leave to be desired. So in your opinion, it is Ok to do evil as long as it is less than someone else?

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

No, I'm saying I think you have an axe to grind with us, and I'm not going to sit and let you "bully" us in front of these "new" modders and not say something about it. Your "marketing" in your posts in very one sided, and like you said, even if there is a better product you'll recommend something else. That doesn't make you a hero.

We are very up front with customers and tell them the risks associated with running these big camshaft and advise them ALL to check their clearances and setup. We also are able to build heads that afford better than stock piston to valve clearance to these guys wanting to run the big combos, and for all these things, I will not apologize.

PREDATOR-Z

I do not have an ax to grind, If that was the case I would not recommend you for anything.
(with regard to products you sold me).
I said that even IF your product is now better, I would not touch it (ME).
The only heroes are dead ones (That is why I never volunteer ).
You were not "up front" with me. You sold me a substandard product. I could go further and remind you of the 243 230cc (IIRC) that you guys had issues with a few years back. How did those make it on the market if you had done your R&D properly? The fact is you revised to 227cc after multiple complaints. Why? because you guys took too much off in an area that you shouldn't have.
How many times do we see posts where your shop states that XXX cam will clear with no issues (while we both know that such XXX cam has to be checked for PTV clearance since not all motors are equal in tolerances). Newbies don't know any better and just take your word for it.
Example: I do not see any disclaimer on your site advising that such XXX cam HAS to be checked.
Am I unsatisfied with what happened back then? YES, would I consider heads that you worked on? NO
But that is ME.
I have no beef with you, I simply do not agree with certain practices you have. This is based on MY experience with your products.

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (14)

there was an MS4 in my car before it got put back to stock longblock, zero issues with it, lots of track and street abuse. I reccommend TSP for anything. the 402 in my formula was built by them, i've had zero issues out of it as well and it performs well above par for what it has in it. OP did you have the correct pushrod length when you installed the cam? Could be another reason for having PTV clearance issues if they were too long.

baxsom

iTrader: (6)

Over the top like God intended.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

I wouldnt blame Texas Speed. I have not seen a single thread where they say install it and forget it. They even told me to measure with a 228R.
The OP obviously had some bad luck, but he didnt take all the precautions required for any cam install.
He did not degree the cam and he didn't check PTV clearence. Heck how do we even know the block wasnt decked?
Swapping a cam is not for a novice. Anyone who just jumps in and doesnt follow procedures, he has only himself lf to blame. Do you blame TSP for not telling you to torque the fasteners? Blame them for not telling you to re-fill the crankcase with oil or the cooling system with water so it doesnt over sieze for over heat??

There are post on here no kidding EVERYDAY!!! asking about PTV clearence and checking pushrods and they ALL say to MEASURE....MEASURE....MEASURE!!!