Cam Motion vs. Comp cams, any difference in power with same specs?
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Cam Motion vs. Comp cams, any difference in power with same specs? Lets say I bought a cam from Cam Motion and Comp cams (NOT XER LOBE) both with the same specs 250/256 .620/.626 112 LSA or the closest each sponsor could come to that
which one do you think will make more power?
Since I am going with a cam this big comp can not make me a XER cam so I am asking about there regular cams.
which one do you think will make more power?
Since I am going with a cam this big comp can not make me a XER cam so I am asking about there regular cams.
It may be at .050, but not at .100, .200, .300 and on. These are the numbers that vary and this is wear "real cams" out perform others. Then we go ramp velocites and . . . hell I can go on.
Chris
Chris
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You need to go to a guy that can do real custom work, not use off the shelf lobes.
There are a hell of a lot better lobe designs out there, they just aren't available for the average joe.
You can have two different cams with the same duration that have completely different valve events. The reverse is also true.
There are a hell of a lot better lobe designs out there, they just aren't available for the average joe.
You can have two different cams with the same duration that have completely different valve events. The reverse is also true.
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I am just learning about cams and after doing some research I came out with those specs, I am no cam expert at all.
just thought I would ask you guys who would you go with cam motion or comp?
Or is there someone else that I should be ordering my cam through thats in the same price range...around $400?
just thought I would ask you guys who would you go with cam motion or comp?
Or is there someone else that I should be ordering my cam through thats in the same price range...around $400?
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Basically, throw your specs away. Either use a shop that does custom grinds with Comp or whoever. It takes years of experience and specialized knowledge to create workable cam profiles. Sending you a pm.
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Originally Posted by Cstraub
I agree with DenzSS, knowing what I have seen air numbers on these heads, your CID, and this being a NOS car, your numbers don't jive with what would work.
Chris
Chris
this car is not a all out nitrous only car or else I would of went with a nitrous cam.
I am *trying* to make the best of both worlds
lots of n/a power and when I spray a 200 shot get another 200rwhp
thats one reason why I didnt go with a single pattern cam.
theres a guy I know that has a sinular cam but smaller on a 395ci LS1 and made 180rwhp with a TNT 150 shot and still made over 500rwhp n/a
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I am not saying a single pattern, I just said the numbers don't jive with what will work. As far as a NOS car having good NA power. . .that is not a problem. . Gliddens car would 60ft like a son of gun. Just takes some tweaking.
It is apparent you have spent the $$ on this combo, for a few added dollars I think I would get a professionally speced out camshaft.
Chris
I am not saying a single pattern, I just said the numbers don't jive with what will work. As far as a NOS car having good NA power. . .that is not a problem. . Gliddens car would 60ft like a son of gun. Just takes some tweaking.
It is apparent you have spent the $$ on this combo, for a few added dollars I think I would get a professionally speced out camshaft.
Chris
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Originally Posted by Cstraub
SS,
I am not saying a single pattern, I just said the numbers don't jive with what will work. As far as a NOS car having good NA power. . .that is not a problem. . Gliddens car would 60ft like a son of gun. Just takes some tweaking.
It is apparent you have spent the $$ on this combo, for a few added dollars I think I would get a professionally speced out camshaft.
Chris
I am not saying a single pattern, I just said the numbers don't jive with what will work. As far as a NOS car having good NA power. . .that is not a problem. . Gliddens car would 60ft like a son of gun. Just takes some tweaking.
It is apparent you have spent the $$ on this combo, for a few added dollars I think I would get a professionally speced out camshaft.
Chris
Hell yeah. I'm glad that option is finally getting out on this board. 
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Ok, here is something to look at. Here are 3 ls1 cam lobes from comp that are the same using the .050 specs (228 degrees). But then look at gross, and .200 you will see that all cams are not the same... Notice how gross lift .006 goes down while .050 stay the same, and .200 get larger, thats means the last lobe is more agressive than the first lobe. Anyhow, look at it and see if this makes sense to you.
Comp lobe 3755
.006 282
.050 228
.200 141
Lift with 1.7 rockers is .539
Comp Lobe 3717
.006 281
.050 228
.200 145
Lift with 1.7 Rockers is .571
Comp Lobe 3724
.006 277
.050 228
.200 149
Lift with 1.7 Rockers is .588
These are all Ls1 lobes. When you get into grinding a BBC lobe on an Ls1 core, or a Ford hydraulic roller lobe on an ls1 lobe, then you have even more choices. The point I am making is that even within Comp you can't just look at .050 as your determining factor. There is a lot more to lobes than just duration @ .050 You must look at the whole cam, and the whole package. You need to look at:
N/A or P/A
Intake tract length
header / Exhaust length
I/E ratio
and about 50 pages more, in short there is plenty to consider, and all of it matters to one extent or another. Yes you might get "close" with a off the shelf cam, but if the rest of the motor is custom, shouldn't your cam be too. Or if not, at least tailor your selection to your application...
Comp lobe 3755
.006 282
.050 228
.200 141
Lift with 1.7 rockers is .539
Comp Lobe 3717
.006 281
.050 228
.200 145
Lift with 1.7 Rockers is .571
Comp Lobe 3724
.006 277
.050 228
.200 149
Lift with 1.7 Rockers is .588
These are all Ls1 lobes. When you get into grinding a BBC lobe on an Ls1 core, or a Ford hydraulic roller lobe on an ls1 lobe, then you have even more choices. The point I am making is that even within Comp you can't just look at .050 as your determining factor. There is a lot more to lobes than just duration @ .050 You must look at the whole cam, and the whole package. You need to look at:
N/A or P/A
Intake tract length
header / Exhaust length
I/E ratio
and about 50 pages more, in short there is plenty to consider, and all of it matters to one extent or another. Yes you might get "close" with a off the shelf cam, but if the rest of the motor is custom, shouldn't your cam be too. Or if not, at least tailor your selection to your application...
denz, while i agree with much of what you are saying in cam theory and valve events, i can not agree with you when you speak that an off the shelf grind cam is a waste of time for most if not nearly all folks. MAYBE 0.01% of the guys here that read this are not all out race cars looking to break records or qualify #1. as you have said so many times, these are street cars for the most part that see some track time. your theories would be excellent if we were looking for the poll at the daytona 500. for nearly everyone here, a comp xe type grind or off the shelf cam motion cam would be excellent and we would not find any difference in performance.
I asked for a custom spec cam for my new motor from a 3rd party I'd never talked with before. The custom spec was 226/228 on a 112 LSA with a ~XE like ramp.
The cam I picked out by myself is a MMS229v2.1 which is about two years old. I have not had the MMS cam doctored yet but normally they come up ~228/~228 on a ~113 with an ~XE like ramp. The lift was with in .004 between the cams.
The ramps were about XE fast like based on both cams coming up with a ramp index of ~52 to 53 based on advertised - @50 duration.
I don't know which is better I was suprised the "custom spec'd cam" was with ~2 degrees intake duration, same exhaust duration, within ~1 degree on LSA, with in .004 on lift of an off the shelf cam I picked out.
My suggestions are call Alan Futral and let him spec your cam with his custom Cam Motion lobes. If you talk to Comp Cams ask for Brian and let him spec a cam for you. I plan to call Alan and Brian before making the final selection.
Of course many of the guys over there>>>>>>>>can do a good job helping with this too.
The cam I picked out by myself is a MMS229v2.1 which is about two years old. I have not had the MMS cam doctored yet but normally they come up ~228/~228 on a ~113 with an ~XE like ramp. The lift was with in .004 between the cams.
The ramps were about XE fast like based on both cams coming up with a ramp index of ~52 to 53 based on advertised - @50 duration.
I don't know which is better I was suprised the "custom spec'd cam" was with ~2 degrees intake duration, same exhaust duration, within ~1 degree on LSA, with in .004 on lift of an off the shelf cam I picked out.
My suggestions are call Alan Futral and let him spec your cam with his custom Cam Motion lobes. If you talk to Comp Cams ask for Brian and let him spec a cam for you. I plan to call Alan and Brian before making the final selection.
Of course many of the guys over there>>>>>>>>can do a good job helping with this too.
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Originally Posted by gator's 99TA
denz, while i agree with much of what you are saying in cam theory and valve events, i can not agree with you when you speak that an off the shelf grind cam is a waste of time for most if not nearly all folks. MAYBE 0.01% of the guys here that read this are not all out race cars looking to break records or qualify #1. as you have said so many times, these are street cars for the most part that see some track time. your theories would be excellent if we were looking for the poll at the daytona 500. for nearly everyone here, a comp xe type grind or off the shelf cam motion cam would be excellent and we would not find any difference in performance.
What I was actually meaning to infer is that the guys with a lot of money into their buildup will definitely benefit from a custom job. If you're building an engine from scratch, then the cost and effort behind a custom cam is negligible.
If you're just a guy looking to have some fun, then the shelf is easy, inexpensive, and easy to get help with. Also easily comparable to other people around the country. I actually agree with you. Friggin' amazing.
I think you should go the custom route if you are a serious racer, doing a serious buildup, or have a particular need. I referred one guy on here to a resource I use because he was looking for a good performing cam that works well with stock manifolds and will pass CA emissions. Specific need and I know someone that excels at cam design within those parameters.
I try to tell most people TR224, XE or XE-R 224, or something similar.
off the shelf lobes? Do you consider comps complete lobe catalog off the shelf? If so did you and many other pay Comp $500 a piece for your "custom" intake and exhaust lobes?.....I don't think so..in that sense a cam would only cost you about $1,300
Originally Posted by DenzSS
The catalog that most people have access to, yes. There are a hell of a lot of lobes the public can't get their hands on. I count those as custom.
This is true. 