My Mamo NA 434 build finally on the road!
12-24-2012, 08:58 AM
#22
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12-24-2012, 11:10 AM
#23
You mean overlap is 19 degrees:-)..... your ivc event is much later than I anticipated, but you have a very light car that doesn't need an earlier ivc event to help get the car accelerating. Hoping that Tony sticks his head in here and sees my queries.
12-24-2012, 03:01 PM
#24
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Yes that's what I meant 8>). I thought EVO mean exhaust valve overlap.
I am sure Tony will have something to say since it's his creation.
The idle quality is extremely smooth considering the cam. I did not want a blap,blap,blap idle henct the 114 LSA. I have been in small cars like the RX7 with a lopy idle. It really shakes em around.
We have it set up running open loop at idle with idle base timing at 28 degrees, halved the over/under tables... although getting the idle routines nailed down and keeping it from stalling was another battle that we are still tweaking.
I will have to revert to Mr. Mamo on the compression ratio. I do not recall what we finally came up with. It is safe for pump gas.
I am sure Tony will have something to say since it's his creation.
The idle quality is extremely smooth considering the cam. I did not want a blap,blap,blap idle henct the 114 LSA. I have been in small cars like the RX7 with a lopy idle. It really shakes em around.
We have it set up running open loop at idle with idle base timing at 28 degrees, halved the over/under tables... although getting the idle routines nailed down and keeping it from stalling was another battle that we are still tweaking.
I will have to revert to Mr. Mamo on the compression ratio. I do not recall what we finally came up with. It is safe for pump gas.
12-24-2012, 03:11 PM
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Thanks for the positive comments. If any of you are not familiar with the 3rd gen RX7, it is light, rear wheel drive sports car that handles extremely well and is forgiving and powered by a twin turbo rotary engine from the factory. I will not sit here and say that rotaries suck, etc, I just did not have good luck keeping them together. Plus I wanted low end grunt torque as offered by the LS powerplant. And the LS drivetrain with the AC is within 50 lbs of the rotary powerplant so the LS swap makes sense. You get all the benefits of a lightweight great handling car with the durability and power of an LS engine. In other words, beat the snot out of it and not have to worry about blowing it up.
12-27-2012, 02:48 AM
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Thanks for the positive comments. If any of you are not familiar with the 3rd gen RX7, it is light, rear wheel drive sports car that handles extremely well and is forgiving and powered by a twin turbo rotary engine from the factory. I will not sit here and say that rotaries suck, etc, I just did not have good luck keeping them together. Plus I wanted low end grunt torque as offered by the LS powerplant. And the LS drivetrain with the AC is within 50 lbs of the rotary powerplant so the LS swap makes sense. You get all the benefits of a lightweight great handling car with the durability and power of an LS engine. In other words, beat the snot out of it and not have to worry about blowing it up.
12-27-2012, 10:06 AM
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12-27-2012, 11:28 AM
#33
Ridiculous build. What is this thing putting down? Pretty trick intake setup, too bad they don't make anything similar for the e36. Might take some of those ideas and try to fab something myself when I get to that point. The short / straight flow path seems to encourage "air on demand" much more-so than the longer runs and elbows you typically see on swaps.
12-27-2012, 05:02 PM
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Awesome build mate, I've had this argument with a friend of mine with an fd ( he's a complete rotor head though ) and he can't look at the benefits with an open mind ( I suppose I can't either lol ) but I've been preaching this to him for ages, so much to gain with pretty much zero down side, great work mate
12-28-2012, 06:56 PM
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Ridiculous build. What is this thing putting down? Pretty trick intake setup, too bad they don't make anything similar for the e36. Might take some of those ideas and try to fab something myself when I get to that point. The short / straight flow path seems to encourage "air on demand" much more-so than the longer runs and elbows you typically see on swaps.
12-29-2012, 12:05 AM
#38
Guys,
Sorry Im a little late to the party....the Holidays and all the things on my plate this time of year (some personal projects as well) have really left time for posting to a minimum.
Zach, first off a big congrats on finally getting this build finished up.....yes the road was long but the results are/were worth it.
I try to encourage most people I speak with to save longer and do it right....no regrets kind of thing. In the end it saves money (and alot of time) when so-so results leads most to revisit/rethink their combination only creating the total cost of (both) builds to far exceed the cost of doing it right the first time. In the scheme of things it really doesn't cost a whole lot more....another few hundred here and a few hundred there. Either way your spending serious coin.....even another grand to $1500 when your in for 5-7K or more anyway is really not an outrageous some of money all things considered if it significantly improves the output, reliability, and quality of the components. Anyway....sorry for the rant but believe me what I'm preaching a handful of you already know and/or have been there. I mention it for the benefit of those on the fence when it comes to cost cutting and parts selection.
Im looking forward to seeing the number this build produces....that CAI certainly wont be holding things back.....LOL The engine looks stock perched under the hood of this car (nice job on all the plumbing and handling of the small details that allows it to look this good)....and for the "must be rotary" crowd, a ride in Zach's car would likely convert them.
What else can I add.....I set the CR of this build at 11.5 to 1 (taking into account piston profile, deck height, gasket thickness, and chamber volume of the heads which I cc'ed and milled to set it exactly where I wanted it).
Camshafts....lots of theories and ideas that could span pages long but the bottom line is my exhaust ports tend to be pretty efficient and they have a very strong flow curve even on the bottom (lower lifts) so I can delay the opening of that exhaust valve a bit longer allowing the precious cylinder pressure to work on that piston for a few more crank degrees, then when it opens the exhaust port can still get the job done in spite of having not as much time to do so. The wider LSA's I prefer reduce some of the overlap of the intake and exhaust, once again being concerned I don't overscavenge the intake with the stronger low lift my heads usually feature (this pulls unburnt oxygen and fuel into your header/exhaust and removes it from the next combustion/power cycle). I also like wide LSA cams because they delay the intake closing point helping to "fool" the engine into thinking it has a larger cam than it does. This creates a strong peak number and really carries well past peak....and with the high airspeed design of most of my stuff the combinations are never hurting for peak torque anyway where I need the crutch of a narrow LSA to build more cylinder pressure to get it back (and in turn hurt peak and past peak power as well as hurt driving manners and idle quality). Camshafts are a maze of give and take situations and its all about juggling the compromises to get you the most while sacrificing the least but in some respects the right cam is driven by the individual and the application more so than you would think. The more you know about the entire combination (especially the flow and efficiency of the cylinder heads), the better you are able to navigate all the trade-offs associated with duration, LSA, and installed position to help determine the optimal camshaft profile.....in the end though camshafts are tuning tools and we do our best to select/grind what we think the customer needs and wants based on the application and his feelings concerning idle quality, cam surge, MPG, etc.
Alright....that was a mouthful!....LOL
Guys, hope your Holidays are going well.....Zach enjoy the car and Im looking forward to some more feedback and ultimately the dyno numbers when weather and time permits!
Cheers,
Tony
Sorry Im a little late to the party....the Holidays and all the things on my plate this time of year (some personal projects as well) have really left time for posting to a minimum.
Zach, first off a big congrats on finally getting this build finished up.....yes the road was long but the results are/were worth it.
I try to encourage most people I speak with to save longer and do it right....no regrets kind of thing. In the end it saves money (and alot of time) when so-so results leads most to revisit/rethink their combination only creating the total cost of (both) builds to far exceed the cost of doing it right the first time. In the scheme of things it really doesn't cost a whole lot more....another few hundred here and a few hundred there. Either way your spending serious coin.....even another grand to $1500 when your in for 5-7K or more anyway is really not an outrageous some of money all things considered if it significantly improves the output, reliability, and quality of the components. Anyway....sorry for the rant but believe me what I'm preaching a handful of you already know and/or have been there. I mention it for the benefit of those on the fence when it comes to cost cutting and parts selection.
Im looking forward to seeing the number this build produces....that CAI certainly wont be holding things back.....LOL The engine looks stock perched under the hood of this car (nice job on all the plumbing and handling of the small details that allows it to look this good)....and for the "must be rotary" crowd, a ride in Zach's car would likely convert them.
What else can I add.....I set the CR of this build at 11.5 to 1 (taking into account piston profile, deck height, gasket thickness, and chamber volume of the heads which I cc'ed and milled to set it exactly where I wanted it).
Camshafts....lots of theories and ideas that could span pages long but the bottom line is my exhaust ports tend to be pretty efficient and they have a very strong flow curve even on the bottom (lower lifts) so I can delay the opening of that exhaust valve a bit longer allowing the precious cylinder pressure to work on that piston for a few more crank degrees, then when it opens the exhaust port can still get the job done in spite of having not as much time to do so. The wider LSA's I prefer reduce some of the overlap of the intake and exhaust, once again being concerned I don't overscavenge the intake with the stronger low lift my heads usually feature (this pulls unburnt oxygen and fuel into your header/exhaust and removes it from the next combustion/power cycle). I also like wide LSA cams because they delay the intake closing point helping to "fool" the engine into thinking it has a larger cam than it does. This creates a strong peak number and really carries well past peak....and with the high airspeed design of most of my stuff the combinations are never hurting for peak torque anyway where I need the crutch of a narrow LSA to build more cylinder pressure to get it back (and in turn hurt peak and past peak power as well as hurt driving manners and idle quality). Camshafts are a maze of give and take situations and its all about juggling the compromises to get you the most while sacrificing the least but in some respects the right cam is driven by the individual and the application more so than you would think. The more you know about the entire combination (especially the flow and efficiency of the cylinder heads), the better you are able to navigate all the trade-offs associated with duration, LSA, and installed position to help determine the optimal camshaft profile.....in the end though camshafts are tuning tools and we do our best to select/grind what we think the customer needs and wants based on the application and his feelings concerning idle quality, cam surge, MPG, etc.
Alright....that was a mouthful!....LOL
Guys, hope your Holidays are going well.....Zach enjoy the car and Im looking forward to some more feedback and ultimately the dyno numbers when weather and time permits!
Cheers,
Tony
12-29-2012, 11:27 AM
#39
Guys,
Sorry Im a little late to the party....the Holidays and all the things on my plate this time of year (some personal projects as well) have really left time for posting to a minimum.
Zach, first off a big congrats on finally getting this build finished up.....yes the road was long but the results are/were worth it.
I try to encourage most people I speak with to save longer and do it right....no regrets kind of thing. In the end it saves money (and alot of time) when so-so results leads most to revisit/rethink their combination only creating the total cost of (both) builds to far exceed the cost of doing it right the first time. In the scheme of things it really doesn't cost a whole lot more....another few hundred here and a few hundred there. Either way your spending serious coin.....even another grand to $1500 when your in for 5-7K or more anyway is really not an outrageous some of money all things considered if it significantly improves the output, reliability, and quality of the components. Anyway....sorry for the rant but believe me what I'm preaching a handful of you already know and/or have been there. I mention it for the benefit of those on the fence when it comes to cost cutting and parts selection.
Im looking forward to seeing the number this build produces....that CAI certainly wont be holding things back.....LOL The engine looks stock perched under the hood of this car (nice job on all the plumbing and handling of the small details that allows it to look this good)....and for the "must be rotary" crowd, a ride in Zach's car would likely convert them.
What else can I add.....I set the CR of this build at 11.5 to 1 (taking into account piston profile, deck height, gasket thickness, and chamber volume of the heads which I cc'ed and milled to set it exactly where I wanted it).
Camshafts....lots of theories and ideas that could span pages long but the bottom line is my exhaust ports tend to be pretty efficient and they have a very strong flow curve even on the bottom (lower lifts) so I can delay the opening of that exhaust valve a bit longer allowing the precious cylinder pressure to work on that piston for a few more crank degrees, then when it opens the exhaust port can still get the job done in spite of having not as much time to do so. The wider LSA's I prefer reduce some of the overlap of the intake and exhaust, once again being concerned I don't overscavenge the intake with the stronger low lift my heads usually feature (this pulls unburnt oxygen and fuel into your header/exhaust and removes it from the next combustion/power cycle). I also like wide LSA cams because they delay the intake closing point helping to "fool" the engine into thinking it has a larger cam than it does. This creates a strong peak number and really carries well past peak....and with the high airspeed design of most of my stuff the combinations are never hurting for peak torque anyway where I need the crutch of a narrow LSA to build more cylinder pressure to get it back (and in turn hurt peak and past peak power as well as hurt driving manners and idle quality). Camshafts are a maze of give and take situations and its all about juggling the compromises to get you the most while sacrificing the least but in some respects the right cam is driven by the individual and the application more so than you would think. The more you know about the entire combination (especially the flow and efficiency of the cylinder heads), the better you are able to navigate all the trade-offs associated with duration, LSA, and installed position to help determine the optimal camshaft profile.....in the end though camshafts are tuning tools and we do our best to select/grind what we think the customer needs and wants based on the application and his feelings concerning idle quality, cam surge, MPG, etc.
Alright....that was a mouthful!....LOL
Guys, hope your Holidays are going well.....Zach enjoy the car and Im looking forward to some more feedback and ultimately the dyno numbers when weather and time permits!
Cheers,
Tony
Sorry Im a little late to the party....the Holidays and all the things on my plate this time of year (some personal projects as well) have really left time for posting to a minimum.
Zach, first off a big congrats on finally getting this build finished up.....yes the road was long but the results are/were worth it.
I try to encourage most people I speak with to save longer and do it right....no regrets kind of thing. In the end it saves money (and alot of time) when so-so results leads most to revisit/rethink their combination only creating the total cost of (both) builds to far exceed the cost of doing it right the first time. In the scheme of things it really doesn't cost a whole lot more....another few hundred here and a few hundred there. Either way your spending serious coin.....even another grand to $1500 when your in for 5-7K or more anyway is really not an outrageous some of money all things considered if it significantly improves the output, reliability, and quality of the components. Anyway....sorry for the rant but believe me what I'm preaching a handful of you already know and/or have been there. I mention it for the benefit of those on the fence when it comes to cost cutting and parts selection.
Im looking forward to seeing the number this build produces....that CAI certainly wont be holding things back.....LOL The engine looks stock perched under the hood of this car (nice job on all the plumbing and handling of the small details that allows it to look this good)....and for the "must be rotary" crowd, a ride in Zach's car would likely convert them.
What else can I add.....I set the CR of this build at 11.5 to 1 (taking into account piston profile, deck height, gasket thickness, and chamber volume of the heads which I cc'ed and milled to set it exactly where I wanted it).
Camshafts....lots of theories and ideas that could span pages long but the bottom line is my exhaust ports tend to be pretty efficient and they have a very strong flow curve even on the bottom (lower lifts) so I can delay the opening of that exhaust valve a bit longer allowing the precious cylinder pressure to work on that piston for a few more crank degrees, then when it opens the exhaust port can still get the job done in spite of having not as much time to do so. The wider LSA's I prefer reduce some of the overlap of the intake and exhaust, once again being concerned I don't overscavenge the intake with the stronger low lift my heads usually feature (this pulls unburnt oxygen and fuel into your header/exhaust and removes it from the next combustion/power cycle). I also like wide LSA cams because they delay the intake closing point helping to "fool" the engine into thinking it has a larger cam than it does. This creates a strong peak number and really carries well past peak....and with the high airspeed design of most of my stuff the combinations are never hurting for peak torque anyway where I need the crutch of a narrow LSA to build more cylinder pressure to get it back (and in turn hurt peak and past peak power as well as hurt driving manners and idle quality). Camshafts are a maze of give and take situations and its all about juggling the compromises to get you the most while sacrificing the least but in some respects the right cam is driven by the individual and the application more so than you would think. The more you know about the entire combination (especially the flow and efficiency of the cylinder heads), the better you are able to navigate all the trade-offs associated with duration, LSA, and installed position to help determine the optimal camshaft profile.....in the end though camshafts are tuning tools and we do our best to select/grind what we think the customer needs and wants based on the application and his feelings concerning idle quality, cam surge, MPG, etc.
Alright....that was a mouthful!....LOL
Guys, hope your Holidays are going well.....Zach enjoy the car and Im looking forward to some more feedback and ultimately the dyno numbers when weather and time permits!
Cheers,
Tony
The cam I ended up grinding for that customer with the 416 CTS-V and your AFR 245's was 243/250 .624"/.595" 113+2....compression is 11.5:1. What do you think?
