Gunslinger09

I think it is most probably the oil that is causing this. 10 years ago there were no lifter failures like this now they are common. I use Shell Rotella T. It's oil that heavy duty diesel trucks use. It keeps Big Rigs on the road for a million miles and still has all the Zinc additives in it.

dirtbag

iTrader: (2)

I used that stuff for breaking in my first motor. It's thick as molasses, lol. Good oil though. FWIW that motor lasted 3k miles before I had a failed LS7 lifter...

Gunslinger09

Were you using an oil with zinc additives in it though? Same oil, same lifter, no failures points to the problem being with the oil not the lifters. Same lifters, different oil and a rash of failures points to the oil solidly.

dirtbag

iTrader: (2)

I ran German Castrol oil. This was back in '05

mightybird

interesting my 2002 with 31k miles did that as well with a ms4 cam using the same oil you used! my factory block needs a lifter bore sleeve now! had to get a short block built kinda sucked.

dhctss

iTrader: (3)

I switched to mobil 1 0w 40 european forumla. After reasearching it has different additives and is a true synthetic compared to us mobil 1. I have consumed no oil in 700 miles. It is avaialble off the shelves and dont need to order. I t is very comparable to the german castrol

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

You know there are a lot more LS engines on road today than there was 10 years ago (and less people on this site to talk about it). I wouldn't relate that 10 years ago there were less failures because we don't know that. Parts fail...that's how it is. A particular LOT could have been made under a vast amount of different conditions which can result in different reliabilities. Manufacturers mess up, use low quality steel, bad springs etc.

That lifter in the picture is defective. The roll pin is coming out and its not suppose to do that. No oil in the world can prevent defective parts from failing.

There are tons of people out there (including me) that have put thousands of miles on roller lifters without a failure using everyday oil without Zinc additives.
You would see millions of failures if it was no kidding the cause. 1 in a million is not a smoking gun.

brians91formula

iTrader: (12)

Better start reading man. Its the oil that's doing it.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...continues.aspx

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/street-oils


http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/street-oils

Here is what a reputable sponsor had to say on the subject:

Lately, Ive been seeing a LOT of failed turbos, and failed camshaft/lifters.


Ive been in the LSx game for over a decade, and rarely do I see failures. We are a mailorder based company with 3 full time techs doing installs and R&D.

Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.

We have also seen a lot of turbo thrust bearing failures. This is VERY abnormal.

Have you heard about the LS7 exhaust valve dropping syndrome? It just started rearing its ugly head too... Its guide wear... Why? Because the oil cannot protect properly!

Its the oil people. Run a quality oil with proper additives. Redline, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc OUR ENGINES NEED THE ADDITIVES THAT THE EPA HAS MADE STREET OIL BLENDS REMOVE.


believe what you want. I choose to believe the professionals.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

I'm referring mainly to the OPs issue...I don't see how it's oil related.

As far as your claim...you can't prove it, but it is a good assumption. Failures of roller lifters are just not that common to say "run oil without a zinc additive and it will fail". Thats all I'm saying. People reporting a lifter failure is pretty rare...Out of the thousands of members here, I would be willing to bet you couldnt even show 10% of the members having a lifter issue by running regular Mobil 1 or comparative oil.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

"Ive been in the LSx game for over a decade, and rarely do I see failures. We are a mailorder based company with 3 full time techs doing installs and R&D.

Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months."

This doesnt support your claim...


Did the oil change 12 months ago?

dirtbag

iTrader: (2)

I tend to agree. LS7 lifters, while are great for their value and mild builds, just are not designed to take the abuse of several thousands of miles with today's high lift high ramp speed cam lobes at high RPMs (and increase spring seat pressures). People obviously have success with them, I'm just saying it's probably a good idea to step up to a nice Lunati/Morel link bar lifter setup if you are running a camshaft with aggressive lobes and don't want to rebuild their short block in the near future. My $0.02 take it or leave it.

batboy

iTrader: (6)

These kind of threads are the reason I ponied up for a set of Lunati link bar lifters even though my stock lifters only had 25k miles..

therabidweasel

iTrader: (5)

Ls7 lifters also lubricate the roller bearings by splash only...the newer lifters like johnson and I believe morel in the near future oil the axle with a seperate feed hole.

It never ceases to amaze me when a $12 part is expected to hold up in an $8k+ engine...theyre stock mass produced high tolerance parts guys...you could oil them with megan fox's lap drippings mixed with chuck norris' tears and it wouldnt help.

brians91formula

iTrader: (12)

Yes, the oil changed within the last 1-2 years. At least that's what I'm told.
Not just the Zinc content but other additives as well.

Go on the Subaru forums and ask about Mobil 1 5w30 in their motors.

batboy

iTrader: (6)

There is more going on than just what type of oil you use. Other factors include cam lobe design, spring pressure, and high RPM. The stock style lifter (including the LS7 lifter) is not designed to operate above 6200-6500 RPM. I know lots of people push them much higher than that. Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention the crappy plastic lifter trays that wear and allow the lifter to rotate in the bore which causes big problems.

Beanslsxnova

iTrader: (1)

I had an ls7 lifter rotate in my lifter tray and destroy itself, cam, crank, and I guess metal made it through the oil line to the turbo cause the bearings are trashed in it to. So after a $12000 year long build. I had one summer of fun and now I get to start all over again. I was using brad penn oil. After all I've been through I would say if your gonna beat the **** out of it like I do spend money on good parts. It cost a lot if you wanna be fast and "reliable". To the op good luck with your build man you could be starting all over again like me lol!

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I agree. It's easy to blame the oil/EPA/etc when the combination may be a little on the ragged edge or if you just happen to sell oil additives.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

I think some people forget about that too. I'm no engineer, but I would tend to agree people push OEM parts to their limit have a failure and then blame the oil.

I think better oil and additives help with lubrication, but they don't prevent parts from failure due to exceeding their designed purpose.


Of course....PARTS DO FAIL, just because. Every part off the assembly line is not 100% perfect.

Russ K

iTrader: (1)

Which Brad Penn oil were you using, as they also have a "Synthetic Blend and Premium Passenger Car Motor oils that are more suitable for use in vehicles with catalytic converters" as well as their high performance oil that has high zinc and phosphorous additives.

I damaged an SLP camshaft (234/228) with the supplied single springs in 30,000 km's using the recommended 10W-30 Mobile 1 oil. Used 15W50 Mobile 1 for the next 50,000 km's without a problem on the new comp cam & dual springs.

I know of some low mileage stock GM's that had camshafts & lifters replaced under warranty.

Russ Kemp

02SOMSS

iTrader: (10)

Oil would not have prevented this failure.

Knock on wood I haven't had any trouble with my flat tappet stuff but it all gets Rotella 15/40 that I bought 5-6 years ago when they started messing with the formulation.

I could see lack of zinc causing problems with the retaining pin on the roller, especially if there isn't a bearing in there. Pin wears, gets weak, snap then things get real ugly real fast.
A tube of zinc supplement is cheap insurance for anything IMO.