How would you spend 13 grand?
03-19-2013, 09:30 AM
#21
13k isn't really that much if you're doing everything and starting with essentially a bone stock car.
The engine mods are the biggest single ticket items in my build, but they are less than half the cost of the total build out (not including any labor). And I'm not even building a track car with a bullet proof suspension and driveline.
The problem with doing any kind of build is there are a LOT of options for each individual component. And some combinations work better together than others.
Before you jump into the build with this client, you need to know exactly what he is looking for. Does he want something that still drives nice? Is fast on the street or at the track? If at the track, how much money does he want to drop into making it reliable and thereby eating up a good chunk of his budget?
This seems like a build that's destined to do more harm than good for the reputation of the shop.
The engine mods are the biggest single ticket items in my build, but they are less than half the cost of the total build out (not including any labor). And I'm not even building a track car with a bullet proof suspension and driveline.
The problem with doing any kind of build is there are a LOT of options for each individual component. And some combinations work better together than others.
Before you jump into the build with this client, you need to know exactly what he is looking for. Does he want something that still drives nice? Is fast on the street or at the track? If at the track, how much money does he want to drop into making it reliable and thereby eating up a good chunk of his budget?
This seems like a build that's destined to do more harm than good for the reputation of the shop.
03-19-2013, 12:23 PM
#26
10 Second Club
If your staying LS1, FAST 92 set up, a high 220s low 230s cam, a set of PRC 5.3s or LS6s, TSP 1 7/8s, true duals, injectors, trunions, oil pump, LS2 chain, 3600-4000k stall, cooler, if hes not going to race it you could probably get by with 373s in the 10 bolt, LCAs. Best bet is call TSP tell them the situation but first I'd get a ball park of what your going to charge in labor so you'll know what kind of budget your actually looking at. A 450rwhp LS1 with almost stock driveability is pretty doable.
03-19-2013, 12:40 PM
#27
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If your staying LS1, FAST 92 set up, a high 220s low 230s cam, a set of PRC 5.3s or LS6s, TSP 1 7/8s, true duals, injectors, trunions, oil pump, LS2 chain, 3600-4000k stall, cooler, if hes not going to race it you could probably get by with 373s in the 10 bolt, LCAs. Best bet is call TSP tell them the situation but first I'd get a ball park of what your going to charge in labor so you'll know what kind of budget your actually looking at. A 450rwhp LS1 with almost stock driveability is pretty doable.
Last edited by boosted330; 03-19-2013 at 01:05 PM.
03-19-2013, 12:52 PM
#28
TSP true duals are awesome, yes.
Trunions are replacing the needle bearings in the rocker arms with a fully caged set-up. With today's ever increasing ramp rates on cams, it's becoming more and more common for these stock bearing to let go and spit needle bearings all throughout the motor.
450rwhp is fun, and quite easy actually....
Trunions are replacing the needle bearings in the rocker arms with a fully caged set-up. With today's ever increasing ramp rates on cams, it's becoming more and more common for these stock bearing to let go and spit needle bearings all throughout the motor.
450rwhp is fun, and quite easy actually....
03-19-2013, 01:15 PM
#29
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TSP true duals are awesome, yes.
Trunions are replacing the needle bearings in the rocker arms with a fully caged set-up. With today's ever increasing ramp rates on cams, it's becoming more and more common for these stock bearing to let go and spit needle bearings all throughout the motor.
450rwhp is fun, and quite easy actually....
Trunions are replacing the needle bearings in the rocker arms with a fully caged set-up. With today's ever increasing ramp rates on cams, it's becoming more and more common for these stock bearing to let go and spit needle bearings all throughout the motor.
450rwhp is fun, and quite easy actually....
03-19-2013, 01:31 PM
#31
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You and me both! I dont know if the guy can even drive a manual. Being that he just had his auto built I dont know if he would even be interested in the idea but I will throw it out there. I still cant get a hold of Texas Speed, line is busy every time I call.
03-19-2013, 02:19 PM
#33
Welcome to the board. Looks like you have a LOT of reading up to do.
Yes, the rear is a major weak link. Could you get by for a while, sure however under the levels of power we're talking about it would be wise to fix that issue first. There are several good options and if you're buying a new bolt-in manufactured rear end you should figure that will eat up almost $4K of the budget. In the absence of that modification, you'll end up in the same group as many of us -- a motor that makes plenty of power however you'll never realize the potential because you're too scared to leave the rear end at the starting line!
Outside of that, there are a bunch of great options and where you go from there should be determined by exactly what your customer wants out of the car. Track car vs. daily driver vs. blend of both. Straight line racer vs. road course car. Max effort setup vs. power under the curve setup. N/A vs. power adders. Etc. All should play into where you go next.
Ultimately, it will take some work to piece together a group of modifications that support each other and help the customer achieve his goals. There are plenty of great options for cam upgrades, heads upgrades, intake upgrades, etc. however to get optimal results you'll need a combination that works well together.
As a basis for comparison, I wanted daily driver manners from a car that will spend time on the street and on the track (both quarter mile and road courses). In order to maintain the manners I wanted and the responsiveness on the street, I increased bought heads that would increase compression to 11:1 and paired it with a relatively mild custom grind cam. The 5.3L heads from Texas Speed are a great budget piece -- sure there's more power to be had from other options, however the $1,000 I saved by not going with the higher dollar top-of-the-line options turned into a N20 setup with plenty of safety options. The LS1 intake is a bottle neck -- if you're doing heads and a cam, you'll need to upgrade the intake to a FAST (or an LS6 at a bare minimum). There are substantial power gains to be had from that. When everything was said and done, my budget build put down 440 rwhp and 408 rwtq and a little over 600 rwhp with a 150 hp shot of spray.
Yes, the rear is a major weak link. Could you get by for a while, sure however under the levels of power we're talking about it would be wise to fix that issue first. There are several good options and if you're buying a new bolt-in manufactured rear end you should figure that will eat up almost $4K of the budget. In the absence of that modification, you'll end up in the same group as many of us -- a motor that makes plenty of power however you'll never realize the potential because you're too scared to leave the rear end at the starting line!
Outside of that, there are a bunch of great options and where you go from there should be determined by exactly what your customer wants out of the car. Track car vs. daily driver vs. blend of both. Straight line racer vs. road course car. Max effort setup vs. power under the curve setup. N/A vs. power adders. Etc. All should play into where you go next.
Ultimately, it will take some work to piece together a group of modifications that support each other and help the customer achieve his goals. There are plenty of great options for cam upgrades, heads upgrades, intake upgrades, etc. however to get optimal results you'll need a combination that works well together.
As a basis for comparison, I wanted daily driver manners from a car that will spend time on the street and on the track (both quarter mile and road courses). In order to maintain the manners I wanted and the responsiveness on the street, I increased bought heads that would increase compression to 11:1 and paired it with a relatively mild custom grind cam. The 5.3L heads from Texas Speed are a great budget piece -- sure there's more power to be had from other options, however the $1,000 I saved by not going with the higher dollar top-of-the-line options turned into a N20 setup with plenty of safety options. The LS1 intake is a bottle neck -- if you're doing heads and a cam, you'll need to upgrade the intake to a FAST (or an LS6 at a bare minimum). There are substantial power gains to be had from that. When everything was said and done, my budget build put down 440 rwhp and 408 rwtq and a little over 600 rwhp with a 150 hp shot of spray.
03-19-2013, 03:07 PM
#34
I agree. The customer needs to be practical to what he really wants. $13K is not going to build you a 600hp car especially when paying for labor. You can definitely get the power, but at the sacrifice of the transmission and reared. I suggest that he stick with a H/C/I combo and a good exhaust and be happy with 450hp. If he has any money left...rebuild the transmission.
03-19-2013, 06:22 PM
#38
TECH Enthusiast
Any general advice would help. Before you say 
I apologize that I don't really have the time to deeply search through all the threads for this possibly common information. Also, I realize he said he had $13000 to spend including install, but I would like to try to guide him into possibly getting a car quick while keeping money for gas.
Thanks for the help!
I apologize that I don't really have the time to deeply search through all the threads for this possibly common information. Also, I realize he said he had $13000 to spend including install, but I would like to try to guide him into possibly getting a car quick while keeping money for gas.Thanks for the help!
MOTOR: (392 cid)
LQ4 Block
LS6 Valley Cover
Cometic Head Gaskets
ARP Studs - Heads & Mains
Wiseco K1 3.9" Forged Crank
Wiseco K1 Forged H-Beam Rods - 6.125"
Custom Diamond Pistons (11:1 +/-)
Coated Bearings
Patrick Guerra Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
Scoggin-Dickey CNC L92/LS3 Heads with Manley S.S. valves
Chrome-Moly Pushrods
Melling Oil Pump
F-Body Oil Pan & Pickup
Windage Tray
LS3 Intake or LSX Intake (92mm)
92mm Cable-Operated Throttle Body
Stock L92/LS3 Rocker Arms
COMP CAMS Rocker Arm Conversion Kit
Double-Roller Timing Set
ATI Super-Damper
SFI-Approved Flexplate
42-lb/hr Fuel Injectors
Dress-Up, as desired.
************************************************** *
Exhaust: Coated Headers (1 3/4") Y-Pipe, LOUD mufflers (not my "style")
************************************************** *
Transmission - BUILT 4L60E, 4L80E (funds permitting), or T56 ( Customer's choice -1350 Yoke)
Converter or Clutch - As Required for combo.
************************************************** *
Rearend - (Choice, in no particular order)
Strange S60 Dana (1350 U-Joints)
Strange 9" Ford (1350 U-Joints)
Strange 12-Bolt Chevrolet (1350 U-Joints)
TRUE-TRAC Differential ( Ring & Pinion 3.43/3.54/3.70/3.73)
************************************************** *
Driveshaft : Custom - (1350 Yokes)
************************************************** *
If funds allow, put in a BMR "Off-Road" K-Member & Torque Arm . . . He can "finish" the suspension later, after saving up some more cash.
Enjoy & Hang On !
03-19-2013, 08:07 PM
#39
TECH Senior Member
With All Due Respect Hi Thomas,
If I were in your shoes, I would send him away...
he already demonstrated several warnings/concerns:
- doesn't really know what he wants,
- is willing to pay for it,
- came to a Ford shop (with all due respect to you and your workmates),
- came to a repair shop (rather than a performance/speed shop),
- fast/loud research indicates he's vaguely jumping in over his head;
he will not ever know what he really wants, and he will constantly change what he requires of you, he will drive you insane, consume your time/profit...
and if/when something goes wrong, he will hang your shop in public and throw you under the proverbial bus...
bad deal for you (and him), seriously...
send him away with all his money.
If I were in your shoes, I would send him away...
...
He told us he has "$13,000" to put into the car to go fast, be loud and he wants use to do the research. This causes a slight problem as the shop is full of Ford guys and we don't have experience in anything other then fixing Chevy's, not necessarily making them speedy.
...
He told us he has "$13,000" to put into the car to go fast, be loud and he wants use to do the research. This causes a slight problem as the shop is full of Ford guys and we don't have experience in anything other then fixing Chevy's, not necessarily making them speedy.
...
- doesn't really know what he wants,
- is willing to pay for it,
- came to a Ford shop (with all due respect to you and your workmates),
- came to a repair shop (rather than a performance/speed shop),
- fast/loud research indicates he's vaguely jumping in over his head;
he will not ever know what he really wants, and he will constantly change what he requires of you, he will drive you insane, consume your time/profit...
and if/when something goes wrong, he will hang your shop in public and throw you under the proverbial bus...
bad deal for you (and him), seriously...
send him away with all his money.