I don't think you are bias, fair question, perhaps they do have an issue with material, that is not out of the question. I wonder if setup is also playing a part, old lifter trays, too much pre-load etc. Futral has had issues in the past, read plenty about lunati as well... I still would not run just any oil in these cars, especially with more aggressive lobes and spring pressures.

 

well as mentioned before it could just be the popularity of the cams.This is the first time i've heard of the additives though.Should i throw some in my car?No cats or erg.

 

Today's oil is definitely some of the problem. All the zinc was pulled from most oils due to catalytic converter damage and new emissions regulations. Zinc is a key factor against wear protection.

That being said, I've got customers on the road clocking 40-50K (and counting) on their Cam Motion camshafts with no issues. You MIGHT pulled 15K out of a Comp camshaft before it's totally wiped out. I've seen severe lobe wear as quickly as 1500 miles.

Another big issue with Comp is their camshafts being 3-5 degrees off the ICL they said it was. Anybody who's put a wheel on a Comp cam knows exactly what I'm talking about. Those spec sheets they send are extremely generic and their inaccuracies can be dangerous for the DIY "dot to dot" guys. 3-5 degrees can mean the difference between PTV contact or not, which most DIY'ers also do not check. Especially on these giant 20* or more overlap camshafts.

 

All the tests I've seen tells me there's really only a handful of oils we should even be considering.

Valvoline VR1 Conventional and Amsoil Z-Rod. I wouldn't touch anything else.

I buy VR1 by the case from Amazon. You can get at Autozone and O'Reilly's too.

Both are high in ZDDP, but so are a lot of other oils. The difference is these oils don't sheer and provide the best cushion as well as wear resistance on the market.

 

A couple bottles of the zinc additive I posted a pic of will do the trick with just about every name brand oil. IIRC, VR1 oil is only offered in heavier weights that are too thick for LSX engines (unless you set one up with mile wide bearing clearance).

The Lucas additive is a good substitute. I buy them by the case @ Advance Auto Parts.

 

10W-30 is available. It's actually thinner than German Castrol, which I still use in my other cars.

And like I said, even motor oil with high ZDDP doesn't ensure adequate protection. Joe Gibbs, Red Line, and Royal Purple all have high ZDDP oils, but sheer at much lower thresholds than VR1 or Z-Rod.

 

It has been shown that at a certain point more ZDDP is not going to help the metal to metal contact. if you have an oil with low ZDDP, then yes it will bring that oil up but if you have an oil at 1400 ppm adding more isn't going to do nothing but help you sleep better at night. Besides ZDDP you have to figure in the sheer factor like jake fusion just said. This is what I've read which was done by an SAE engineer and was backed up by GM. Rotella ranks 65th. I'm not going to say its a bad oil because I've used it and many guys have used it with good results. IMO Valvoline VR oil is the best at this point in time.

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=1&t=34926

 

If this is an oil problem then why arent people destroying stock cams? Whats so different about aftermarket vs stock in that regard?

 

I hope I don't jinx myself, but I guess I've been lucky that I've never seen any of these "failures". The last 4-5 cams I've installed were no more than 1 degree off, if that, and two in particular have survived a brutal weekend at the Texas Mile.

Several years ago, my former employer would use Cam Motion almost exclusively, and every now and then, I saw that their cams were off too. Sometimes, they even got more accurate when a different timing set was used...

 

Are you familiar with the LS7 valve guide failures? Stock cams don't have the spring pressure on them that most aftermarket cams utilize.

I've used Comp Cams in all of my builds over the last 16 years (both SBC and LSx), and that includes hydraulic flat tappet setups. I've never had a camshaft failure. I don't use junk oil either.

 

What do you consider junk oil? One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

Exactly. If you have a modern roller lifter motor, the lower ZDDP levels of the newer oils are not going to take out a camshaft. Otherwise there would be mass engine failures in newer cars.

Older cars with freshly rebuilt flat tappet engines need to have some sort of additive.

 

Oil is one of the most hotly debated things on car forums, and in my years, I have come to one conclusion:

If you follow some sort of reasonable oil change interval, based on your driving habits, then you do not need special oil. You probably don't even need synthetic. Run whatever is the correct weight and meets the oil specs in your owner's manual.

Has anyone here ever heard of an LS1 "wearing out" or blowing up because of the wrong brand oil? I haven't.... it has always been due to abuse, bad oem design (early oil pumps), improper part selection, or someone letting their pan go dry.

 

Read post #50. Stock cams and springs have lower profiles and pressures than aftermarket springs which makes it not as harsh on valvetrain

 

my trex was in for less than 3K miles and pitted all to hell on several lobes, one with a groove in it..... all the lifters were undamaged.

 

I would like to share a reply from Comp Cams to my questions about type of Material,Tolerances, and Concerns we normal folk have..lol.
Take note of the link at the end of the reply. hope this helps
Here goes...

"Hello Plustiano and thank you for signing up on CPG Nation!!!

Comp Cams uses various materials to make camshafts depending on what is best for that individual engine and application. We use a wide array of materials due to the fact that we cover a very wide variety of engines. Austempered cam cores are not used in LS applications nor have they ever been by our company. Our LS cams are made predominantly from 5160 or 8620 material. Either the 5160 or 8620 material is more than capable of handling any Hyd. Roller LS application. The difference in materials used has no effect on quality control what so ever and I am not sure what would lead you, or anyone else, to believe that it would. Also all of our cores are produced in the US and come from 1 of 2 sources. These are the same sources that sell cam cores to most every cam manufacturer out there, including the OE manufacturers. I can assure you that no “cheap” or overseas core is ever used in a Comp Cams product. When grinding a camshaft the core specifications must be as close as possible to the finished cam grind specs in order to maintain the deepest possible heat treat. That is why Comp has the largest selection of cam cores in the industry.

Comp maintains some of the highest quality control standards of any camshaft manufacturer in the world. Our cam grinds will be closer to the specs on your card versus any other grinder. We see less than 1% defect rates in our LS cams, which is lower than any other manufacturer that I am aware of. Also there has been no consistent heat treat issue of any type that I am aware of. This is not to say there has never been individual issues, but nothing that has been a continual issue. While it is certainly true that we are not perfect and we do encounter the occasional issue with one of our parts, we do try very hard to ensure that problems are very minimal and we have kept it at a level of less than 1% regarding LS camshafts.

Tolerances for our cams are:
Lobe Separation: +/- 1 degree
Advance: +/- 2 degrees if specified
Duration @.050: +2.5/-1.0 degrees
Lobe Lift: +.003/-.004

We do care about our customers and their projects because we rely on them for our livelihood. We strive to make the best performing and the longest lasting product possible. No company is perfect, but we do try. Also, if a customer has a problem with a product we do everything we can to help fix it.

I would also like to direct you toward a press release put out by Driven Engine Oil. It highlights the importance of proper engine oil especially in LS engines.
Driven Press Release
http://www.autopressreleases.com/vie...se.php?id=1324 "
__________________
Matt Maxwell
Technical Consultant
COMP Performance Group

 

So people with aftermarket valvetrains should use oils with more ZDDP? I could buy into that, although there are many on this forum that run regular off the shelf castrol or m1, and seem to be okay. It's hard to say without a rigorous scientific study.

 

So if you were to have one of these "bad" cams how soon would it become apparant that its bad? 3k miles, 10k? How could you tell while its still in the block?

 

cant tell unless you pull the cam out, or pull a head off. my problem happened in less than 3K miles. but it would be different for everyone.

 

Read the link I posted earlier. There are brands out there with less ZDDP and work beautifully because of their sheering factor. Look at what oil made #1. It only had 806 ppm of zinc compared to the rest. Its capability to protect against metal to metal contact is why it made #1. As I said before Valvoline VR1 10w30 conventional or synthetic is the best in my eyes. I do agree with you though on regular oil change intervals and so forth but no matter 100 miles or 3000 miles, wouldn't you want the best in there?