People with AFR heads PLEASE read.
People with AFR heads PLEASE read. I'm hoping shortly to get back into modding another LS1 Camaro SS A4.
I basically got a wish list of what parts i want to run.Head option 1: Running a set of LS6 heads that only has the valve guide boss ground down, the swirl ramp removed, making a so called bullet shape in front of the valve, blending everything. Porting the bowl/valve guide area, remove the rocker arm boss from the intake runner, and removing casting flash from combustion chamber, oh and removing material from the exhaust valve guide area and removing the casting flash from the exhaust runner. Keep the stock intake runner volume at 210cc's.
Head option 2: AFR 210cc LS1 heads. I know flow numbers don't tell the whole story, but the flow numbers between .200 lift and .550 lift are flat out sick!!
But here's the list of the other parts:
EPS 222/226 .600/.600 113 lsa cam mainly cause it should be A4 friendly.
Either a Vig.3200 or Yank SS3600
ARH 1 3/4" stainless headers with stainless catted Y-Pipe.
Borla CB but modified to except SLP dual/dual tips.
Fast Toys or SLP airlid with Holley filter.
MAF end without the center divider.
TPIS 90mm LS6 intake with 92mm TB.(Let the bad mouthing begin.
And miscellaneous parts like ARP head studs,head gaskets, etc.
Then lastly fully beefed up front/rear suspensions& much better tires.
Since my hardest decision is what heads. I've seen plenty post of guys quoting big track improvements where they lowered their ET's and gained MPH after installing ported LS6 heads.
I just wish more guys would post their track results after adding AFR heads. Those heads have small runners and have killer flow numbers at low, medium , and high lift. So those heads got to lower their ET's and pick up a lot of MPH.
So PLEASE can some of you guys with AFR 205's or the newer 210 heads post how well you did at the track. It would be very helpful. Thank you.
Well thats my dream list. I'm hoping to run low 11.4's @ 122mph or faster in a
full weight SS A4 without slicks or skinnies, but good drag radials or better.
I basically got a wish list of what parts i want to run.Head option 1: Running a set of LS6 heads that only has the valve guide boss ground down, the swirl ramp removed, making a so called bullet shape in front of the valve, blending everything. Porting the bowl/valve guide area, remove the rocker arm boss from the intake runner, and removing casting flash from combustion chamber, oh and removing material from the exhaust valve guide area and removing the casting flash from the exhaust runner. Keep the stock intake runner volume at 210cc's.
Head option 2: AFR 210cc LS1 heads. I know flow numbers don't tell the whole story, but the flow numbers between .200 lift and .550 lift are flat out sick!!
But here's the list of the other parts:
EPS 222/226 .600/.600 113 lsa cam mainly cause it should be A4 friendly.
Either a Vig.3200 or Yank SS3600
ARH 1 3/4" stainless headers with stainless catted Y-Pipe.
Borla CB but modified to except SLP dual/dual tips.
Fast Toys or SLP airlid with Holley filter.
MAF end without the center divider.
TPIS 90mm LS6 intake with 92mm TB.(Let the bad mouthing begin.
And miscellaneous parts like ARP head studs,head gaskets, etc.
Then lastly fully beefed up front/rear suspensions& much better tires.
Since my hardest decision is what heads. I've seen plenty post of guys quoting big track improvements where they lowered their ET's and gained MPH after installing ported LS6 heads.
I just wish more guys would post their track results after adding AFR heads. Those heads have small runners and have killer flow numbers at low, medium , and high lift. So those heads got to lower their ET's and pick up a lot of MPH.
So PLEASE can some of you guys with AFR 205's or the newer 210 heads post how well you did at the track. It would be very helpful. Thank you.
Well thats my dream list. I'm hoping to run low 11.4's @ 122mph or faster in a
full weight SS A4 without slicks or skinnies, but good drag radials or better.
I have no track times personally, but honestly both options will accomplish what you want to do. Comes down to how much you want to spend and how much the additional power is worth to you.
If you're going to do the afr's though, there's no reason not to get the 215s.....there's a reason the other two (205, 210) have been discontinued. They maintain strong port velocity, have a little more breathing room up top, and have larger chambers that are advantageous for unshrouding the valves.
If you're going to do the afr's though, there's no reason not to get the 215s.....there's a reason the other two (205, 210) have been discontinued. They maintain strong port velocity, have a little more breathing room up top, and have larger chambers that are advantageous for unshrouding the valves.
I'm hoping shortly to get back into modding another LS1 Camaro SS A4.
I basically got a wish list of what parts i want to run.Head option 1: Running a set of LS6 heads that only has the valve guide boss ground down, the swirl ramp removed, making a so called bullet shape in front of the valve, blending everything. Porting the bowl/valve guide area, remove the rocker arm boss from the intake runner, and removing casting flash from combustion chamber, oh and removing material from the exhaust valve guide area and removing the casting flash from the exhaust runner. Keep the stock intake runner volume at 210cc's.
Head option 2: AFR 210cc LS1 heads. I know flow numbers don't tell the whole story, but the flow numbers between .200 lift and .550 lift are flat out sick!!
But here's the list of the other parts:
EPS 222/226 .600/.600 113 lsa cam mainly cause it should be A4 friendly.
Either a Vig.3200 or Yank SS3600
ARH 1 3/4" stainless headers with stainless catted Y-Pipe.
Borla CB but modified to except SLP dual/dual tips.
Fast Toys or SLP airlid with Holley filter.
MAF end without the center divider.
TPIS 90mm LS6 intake with 92mm TB.(Let the bad mouthing begin.
And miscellaneous parts like ARP head studs,head gaskets, etc.
Then lastly fully beefed up front/rear suspensions& much better tires.
Since my hardest decision is what heads. I've seen plenty post of guys quoting big track improvements where they lowered their ET's and gained MPH after installing ported LS6 heads.
I just wish more guys would post their track results after adding AFR heads. Those heads have small runners and have killer flow numbers at low, medium , and high lift. So those heads got to lower their ET's and pick up a lot of MPH.
So PLEASE can some of you guys with AFR 205's or the newer 210 heads post how well you did at the track. It would be very helpful. Thank you.
Well thats my dream list. I'm hoping to run low 11.4's @ 122mph or faster in a
full weight SS A4 without slicks or skinnies, but good drag radials or better.
I basically got a wish list of what parts i want to run.Head option 1: Running a set of LS6 heads that only has the valve guide boss ground down, the swirl ramp removed, making a so called bullet shape in front of the valve, blending everything. Porting the bowl/valve guide area, remove the rocker arm boss from the intake runner, and removing casting flash from combustion chamber, oh and removing material from the exhaust valve guide area and removing the casting flash from the exhaust runner. Keep the stock intake runner volume at 210cc's.
Head option 2: AFR 210cc LS1 heads. I know flow numbers don't tell the whole story, but the flow numbers between .200 lift and .550 lift are flat out sick!!
But here's the list of the other parts:
EPS 222/226 .600/.600 113 lsa cam mainly cause it should be A4 friendly.
Either a Vig.3200 or Yank SS3600
ARH 1 3/4" stainless headers with stainless catted Y-Pipe.
Borla CB but modified to except SLP dual/dual tips.
Fast Toys or SLP airlid with Holley filter.
MAF end without the center divider.
TPIS 90mm LS6 intake with 92mm TB.(Let the bad mouthing begin.
And miscellaneous parts like ARP head studs,head gaskets, etc.
Then lastly fully beefed up front/rear suspensions& much better tires.
Since my hardest decision is what heads. I've seen plenty post of guys quoting big track improvements where they lowered their ET's and gained MPH after installing ported LS6 heads.
I just wish more guys would post their track results after adding AFR heads. Those heads have small runners and have killer flow numbers at low, medium , and high lift. So those heads got to lower their ET's and pick up a lot of MPH.
So PLEASE can some of you guys with AFR 205's or the newer 210 heads post how well you did at the track. It would be very helpful. Thank you.
Well thats my dream list. I'm hoping to run low 11.4's @ 122mph or faster in a
full weight SS A4 without slicks or skinnies, but good drag radials or better.
I have no track times personally, but honestly both options will accomplish what you want to do. Comes down to how much you want to spend and how much the additional power is worth to you.
If you're going to do the afr's though, there's no reason not to get the 215s.....there's a reason the other two (205, 210) have been discontinued. They maintain strong port velocity, have a little more breathing room up top, and have larger chambers that are advantageous for unshrouding the valves.
If you're going to do the afr's though, there's no reason not to get the 215s.....there's a reason the other two (205, 210) have been discontinued. They maintain strong port velocity, have a little more breathing room up top, and have larger chambers that are advantageous for unshrouding the valves.
This. 227/231 on a 114 in an A4 has no bucking or surge, definitely sounds cammed, but idle is still very mellow. No track times here either, but getting close.
My heads have similar things done as what you describe except probably less blending than yours would have and we didn't grind the valve guide boss in the exhaust at all, just sanded it some.
the heads along with a cam swap (old cam was 230/224, new is 230/238) took me from a best pass of 12.2@111mph with 12.3-12.4 pretty consistent to a new best of 11.67@117 and consistent 11.7s
if you have the money to invest the better heads will get better results...another option would be having the ls6 heads fully ported professionally which will also gain more
the heads along with a cam swap (old cam was 230/224, new is 230/238) took me from a best pass of 12.2@111mph with 12.3-12.4 pretty consistent to a new best of 11.67@117 and consistent 11.7s
if you have the money to invest the better heads will get better results...another option would be having the ls6 heads fully ported professionally which will also gain more
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Verdad Gallardo I thought the AFR 210's are still being made. I knew they replaced the AFR 205's.
The 210's look very impressive with a small high flow/high velocity intake runner they should make killer torque an killer top end HP. The reason I like the EPS 222/226 cam because it's been making great power and running good at the track. Plus it should be relatively A4 friendly with 3.42 gears and a good converter.
The 210's look very impressive with a small high flow/high velocity intake runner they should make killer torque an killer top end HP. The reason I like the EPS 222/226 cam because it's been making great power and running good at the track. Plus it should be relatively A4 friendly with 3.42 gears and a good converter.
I thought the AFR 210's are still being made. I knew they replaced the AFR 205's.
The 210's look very impressive with a small high flow/high velocity intake runner they should make killer torque an killer top end HP. The reason I like the EPS 222/226 cam because it's been making great power and running good at the track. Plus it should be relatively A4 friendly with 3.42 gears and a good converter.
The 210's look very impressive with a small high flow/high velocity intake runner they should make killer torque an killer top end HP. The reason I like the EPS 222/226 cam because it's been making great power and running good at the track. Plus it should be relatively A4 friendly with 3.42 gears and a good converter.
Just for some info, I was considering the 210's back when I was shopping around. Tony had this to say..
Originally Posted by ckpitt55
As far as the 215's go - do they offer any advantages aside from more breathing room up top over say the 210's, which seem to have been designed for my application (3.90x bore, explosive/torque oriented build), at least judging by the description on AFR's site? Also with the 215's and the larger bore gaskets they require, does that extra volume above the cylinder cause an measurable change in the cylinder fill characteristics? I've always thought of that land area as a "burr" in the airflow path, but again I'm no expert - just curious. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo
The 215's I rework will effectively give you the bottom end of the small heads and the top end of a head larger than 215/....its the have your cake an eat it too scenario.. The larger chamber actually unshrouds the valves....its a good thing...the air can negotiate around the small lip at the deck but if the valve is against the wall there certainly wont be any additional flow to take advantage of. While a big bore is even better to capitalize on the unshrouded chamber, an unshrouded chamber with a small bore still flows more than a shrouded chamber with a small bore....you follow me here?!
Thanks for posting up Tony's info. about the 215's. So basically Tony is saying the 215's
are a better choice than the 210's even though my car won't see the track that often?
I mostly want a strong running street car that I can take to the track once in a while and work at getting it to run 11.4's @ 122+mph.
That's why I was looking at a set of tricked out 243's or the AFR 210's.
are a better choice than the 210's even though my car won't see the track that often?
I mostly want a strong running street car that I can take to the track once in a while and work at getting it to run 11.4's @ 122+mph.
That's why I was looking at a set of tricked out 243's or the AFR 210's.
I have the same goals / purposes in mind as you - my car is going to be a street driven DD and he recommended the 215's for me. Might take it to the strip but would be more likely to autox/roadcourse it. I care more about driveability and explosiveness than peak power, but from what he was saying the 215's are the best of both worlds...more peak power, still a strong flowing port for torque production, and the larger combustion chambers allow for more efficient flow due to the unshrouded valves, even on a smaller bore application.
We are only talking a 5cc difference here - but the 215's give you a bit more flexibility cam-wise and also give you the ability to grow a little if you decide to add cubes down the line. Not that the 210's wouldn't be up to it, but the 215s might be a better all round option, all things considered. My 0.02.
That being said - these heads have bronze valve guides and you're going to want to run a roller rocker to prevent premature wear. Might be another thing to consider. Based on what he's told me, you can expect to need a head refresh (replace guides, valve job) after 50k miles assuming you're running an optimized setup and you keep up on oil changes.
We are only talking a 5cc difference here - but the 215's give you a bit more flexibility cam-wise and also give you the ability to grow a little if you decide to add cubes down the line. Not that the 210's wouldn't be up to it, but the 215s might be a better all round option, all things considered. My 0.02.
That being said - these heads have bronze valve guides and you're going to want to run a roller rocker to prevent premature wear. Might be another thing to consider. Based on what he's told me, you can expect to need a head refresh (replace guides, valve job) after 50k miles assuming you're running an optimized setup and you keep up on oil changes.
Last edited by ckpitt55; Jul 11, 2013 at 01:21 PM.
