DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Thank you!!!

v8pwr

iTrader: (19)

That cam on a 110 will not go to 7k like you want. What intake do you have? This is a big determining factor in how much rpm you can tun. If you want 7k power you need the induction system as a whole to be prepared to do it. Pred Z is trying to keep you from over camming your car to have a lazy powerband that eventually makes a big dyno #. I know it's a light car but they can make better use of a cam that makes power everywhere just like a heavy car.

TT427

iTrader: (1)

What is the intended purpose of the car, and what for induction?

TT427

iTrader: (1)

Also who do you plan on doing your heads?

Russ K

iTrader: (1)

Now how do you think that cam would perform in a car that is ~800+ lbs lighter with 4.10 vs 3.70 gears? Are you lacking any bottom end power?

Russ Kemp

therabidweasel

iTrader: (5)

Russ...in a word, it would be retarded. Mine destroys the tires shifting into second at 45. It'll put your *** in a ditch in a hurry. 800lbs lighter with 4.10s...I cant imagine. With that light of a car and those gears id push everything as high as I could...unless you are running race track temperature slicks you will have enormous traction issues.

I have no skills or knowledge and certainly no credentials to argue with predator-z. This is just my experience. My next build will likely be a GTR and I plan to go destroked, solid roller, flat plane, spun to the moon with all the ponies up top.

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

I just can't help but throw one more variable into the mix. Engines are only
air pumps. What does the engine truly SEE ???? When you degree a cam
there is not only no load on it but usually the valves are not even set. I once
built an 18 degree headed all aluminum road racing engine with a 258/264
solid roller cam, Jesel shafts, and dual springs (265/725psi). Even though the
timing chain was new(I was surprised it wasn't a belt) just setting the valves
backed the cam up from 100 ICL to 101.5 ICL. After several hours of endur-
ance racing gettin' everything loose the engine cylinder pressures probably
truly reflected SEEing a 103 ICL. My point is you can only split hairs here so
far and you ALL are right to a certain degree...no pun intended...

DACTARI

iTrader: (1)

This makes a lot of sense. Perhaps he should optimize the cam for the motor, and put like a 3.73 gear in it.

I guess the question is-- is there an optimal cam for an LS motor at given cubes that should be run in pretty much all performance applications, with gearing, tire size, wheel size, etc adjusted to the performance application?

PREDATOR-Z

Guys the 8000 rpm thing is just a figure of speech. Many enthusiasts are below 30 years old. Most of whom got used to seeing and using high revving imports. I do not see the need to spin a LS motor higher than 6600 to 6800 in street applications. That is just me, I am 50 and was able to successfully transit from SBC school to LS school.
Now back to previous discussion:
Yes the induction will determine peak power and from my experience a 43.5 IVC cam with a LS6 intake will peak around 6200 to 6300 rpm, add another 500 for shift points and there you are in 6800 rpm shift territory.
It is not a horsepower number that will get you moving quick and fast, it is torque and the more you can harness and apply correctly to the ground, the quicker you accelerate.

badassracing

iTrader: (13)

Just curious..Whats the shift point on your LS DD in your sig? By your cam specs it has a 51 degree IVC

PREDATOR-Z

1st>2nd 6600
2nd>3rd 6600
3rd to OD 6800

I have 11.25:1 SCR, keep in mind this is a reverse split cam,they are not heavy breathers in top rpm, my main power range is 3000>6500 and hold over 400lbs trq during that rpm stretch.

badassracing

iTrader: (13)

The 11.25:1 SCR helps the loss of cylinder pressure that comes with the late IVC but it doesn't really change the RPM range. You have more cubes but the same stoke and basically the same rod length so that doesn't change the rpm range either.

Below are the valve events of the cams referred to in this thread. I still fail to see where Russ K's recomendation will have a much higher peak than what you recommended...and definitely not higher than the car in your sig. I understand the reverse split opens the exhaust valve later and produces more torque but it still opens earlier than the other cams. Maybe you can enlighten me.

Your recommendation
EVO 45.5
EVC 5.5
IVO 3.5
IVC 43.5

Russ K
EVO 47.5
EVC 3.5
IVO 1.5
IVC 45.5

Your car
EVO 48
EVC 8
IVO 7
IVC 51

TT427

iTrader: (1)

Great, more bickering that ruins the OP thread. Has the OP been back since it started?

badassracing

iTrader: (13)

Your right. Sorry OP. I just get tired of people knocking someone elses opinion just because its not theirs...even when they were actually making relevant points. I'm done

TT427

iTrader: (1)

Nobody on here ever seems to have a problem with threads going a different direction, sometimes though the ride in that different direction is not a pleasant one. This one fits that scenario, both sides had good points and I would like to know more from the experienced guys like you and Pred, it just seemed argumentative. I mean were all here for a love of this disease and the many different ways to be sick from it right? Maybe the discussion could start over with the goal to teach than disprove. with that said, love the forum and wealth of knowledge that is eagerly shared. Thank you LS1Tech

BKsNHRA

iTrader: (4)

I don't mind seeing a debate from time to time. I was reading it all tryin to learn something about all this ivc evc stuff myself. I might start another thread for a cam I have just to get the gurus thought on it. Knowledge is power right!

TT427

iTrader: (1)

I agree, sometimes tjough things get "uncivilized" to an extent and seem to chase th OP away...

therabidweasel

iTrader: (5)

One mans bickering is another mans debate is another mans discussion. Put your opinion in and its for all to see. I say fire away. I certainly see nothing wrong with this thread, we're all talking cams here. Nobodys getting their feelings hurt, nothing is personal.

Professionally and personally I am an empiricist. There is talk and there is evidence. Just post your evidence and your argument and let folks draw their own conclusions. There arent many idiots going this deep in their motors. People here are pretty damn smart, they can figure it out. I think this thread is great. Thank you all.

PREDATOR-Z

As you mentioned I have more cubes and my combo is tailored for a late IVC. BTW IVC is not the only valve event which play a role in cam behavior.
Contrary to mainstream cam designs which advance in grind, notice mine is retarded 1 degree to make the cam carry better after peak instead of just dying (nose diving) rapidly. That is how I am able to stretch the powerband and benefit from a greater average trq between shifts (That is where I want my power). Also notice overlap, mine has 15* positive which is strong overlap for 364 cid, however due to its design and valve events, it has little reversion which makes it easier to tune with our intakes and give it a more rapid popcorn lope.

Now why do I choose the 110 over the 112? Mainly because I see no reason to cut myself short on power just because I would be afraid to roast my tires. If that is the outcome, it would mean that the car is improperly geared for total combo and use. Bottom line, more overlap = more power and I see no reason to cut myself short on such a combo.

I would suspect that the difference between that cam on a 110 and 112 would be a good 10 to 15 rwhp across the powerband.

1BADLS1tuner

iTrader: (5)

Hey guys sorry took me a while to get back to this!

Im not offended or upset btw, i have been on tech for ALOT (2004) longer than my profile suggests lol... just when it comes to cams i will admit i lack some knowledge.

Lots of good opinions and knowledge in here just what i was looking for!

I will be having a friend that went to SAMs mill, port, valve job, and flow the 243 heads... and he is VERY good and his heads are allot better than some of the sponsors factory casting heads here...

the intake will be ls6 (for now) until i get the money in for a fast 102 setup! Intake is gonna kill me for a while lol

I am stuck with street tires till i get the 8.8 IRS rear.... i have a set of 28" slicks and traction really shouldnt be a huge issue just dont want to kill the stock irs/ales hahahahaha

This is a 99% street car that might see Kearney dragstrip 2 times a year, the Sandhills Open Road Challenge, and High Planes Raceway 1-2 time a year...... damn i wish i had a local track, any kind of track lol