Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1??
03-10-2003, 01:31 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? What do you mean by "over-cam"? Do you mean that the cam is so big that peak HP will go down? Yes, that can happen.
What about if the peak HP occurs at such a high RPM that the valvetrain and/or bottom end won't survive. That can happen too.
Yes, you can over-cam an LS1.
<small>[ March 10, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: HITMANSS ]</small>
What about if the peak HP occurs at such a high RPM that the valvetrain and/or bottom end won't survive. That can happen too.
Yes, you can over-cam an LS1.
<small>[ March 10, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: HITMANSS ]</small>
03-10-2003, 04:39 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by HITMANSS:
<strong> What do you mean by "over-cam"? Do you mean that the cam is so big that peak HP will go down? Yes, that can happen.
What about if the peak HP occurs at such a high RPM that the valvetrain and/or bottom end won't survive. That can happen too.
Yes, you can over-cam an LS1. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I mean at some point the heads will become the bottle-neck. There will eventually be a cam spec that will get the maximum peak HP on stock heads, from there a bigger cam will not do any good because the heads will be maxed out (cam-wise).
<strong> What do you mean by "over-cam"? Do you mean that the cam is so big that peak HP will go down? Yes, that can happen.
What about if the peak HP occurs at such a high RPM that the valvetrain and/or bottom end won't survive. That can happen too.
Yes, you can over-cam an LS1. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I mean at some point the heads will become the bottle-neck. There will eventually be a cam spec that will get the maximum peak HP on stock heads, from there a bigger cam will not do any good because the heads will be maxed out (cam-wise).
03-11-2003, 12:09 AM
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Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? I mean where is the limit going to be, when is the cam going to be too big for the LS-1 heads??
All of this secretive crap about the new cam-specs turned out to be BS in my book. Looks to me like all the shops did was use a familliar lobe deisgn on a BIG *** cam. I may be wrong but it looks like the shops "huge R&D costs" were in the form of trying out a big stick. No bashing intended I am sure that the heads have come a long way from each of these shops. Rapid, JPR, Cartek, and LG all have some sweet heads these days.
I guess what I am saying is that I am amazed that we are still seeing huge gains on stock-head cars by going to bigger cams. I honesly thought the biggest cam for stock heads was going to be in the 224 range with a lift of around .56x. Where are the heads going to become the bottle-neck??
-Nick
<small>[ March 10, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: niphilli ]</small>
All of this secretive crap about the new cam-specs turned out to be BS in my book. Looks to me like all the shops did was use a familliar lobe deisgn on a BIG *** cam. I may be wrong but it looks like the shops "huge R&D costs" were in the form of trying out a big stick. No bashing intended I am sure that the heads have come a long way from each of these shops. Rapid, JPR, Cartek, and LG all have some sweet heads these days.
I guess what I am saying is that I am amazed that we are still seeing huge gains on stock-head cars by going to bigger cams. I honesly thought the biggest cam for stock heads was going to be in the 224 range with a lift of around .56x. Where are the heads going to become the bottle-neck??
-Nick
<small>[ March 10, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: niphilli ]</small>
03-11-2003, 12:22 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? About the only way to overcam the engine is when p/v clearance becomes a problem. Or else the powerband becomes too high for the stock short block and intake. A bigger cam will usally make more power.
03-11-2003, 12:42 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? Hmm, I don't think that these new proprietary cams were just the result of pairing up an intake lobe and an exhaust lobe based on what Lil Lou has said to me.
And look at the power, 407rwhp and 401rwtq on the dyno that I always go to, seems like a pretty darn good number with stock heads.
And yes I think you can overcam a stock headed motor but some of these new cam grinds are making me rethink what is too big.
And look at the power, 407rwhp and 401rwtq on the dyno that I always go to, seems like a pretty darn good number with stock heads.
And yes I think you can overcam a stock headed motor but some of these new cam grinds are making me rethink what is too big.
03-11-2003, 09:54 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong> And look at the power, 407rwhp and 401rwtq on the dyno that I always go to, seems like a pretty darn good number with stock heads.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think they're good numbers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> If I would've know the specs of my G5X1 (229/233)before I bought it, I would've probably said it was too big for a stock headed car. When I heard the specs on the G5X2, I told Louis he was nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<strong> And look at the power, 407rwhp and 401rwtq on the dyno that I always go to, seems like a pretty darn good number with stock heads.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think they're good numbers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> If I would've know the specs of my G5X1 (229/233)before I bought it, I would've probably said it was too big for a stock headed car. When I heard the specs on the G5X2, I told Louis he was nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
03-11-2003, 11:29 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If I would've know the specs of my G5X1 (229/233)before I bought it, I would've probably said it was too big for a stock headed car. When I heard the specs on the G5X2, I told Louis he was nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" /> [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How is the g5x1 for the street? Is is a dog until 3k rpms? Basically, how is it for daily driving? Surging, dying out on hard stops, dying at stop lights.
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03-12-2003, 12:22 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? Here are my G5X1 first impressions:
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...=010877#000000
The car makes more power everywhere, and never dies or surges. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...=010877#000000
The car makes more power everywhere, and never dies or surges. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
03-12-2003, 02:49 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? Another thing to think about is these huge cams aren't killing the smaller ones in the power department. A good friend of mine put down 402 rwhp over two years ago through a mild-mannered 221/221 114 LSA cam and stock LS1 heads.
03-12-2003, 07:43 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> Another thing to think about is these huge cams aren't killing the smaller ones in the power department. A good friend of mine put down 402 rwhp over two years ago through a mild-mannered 221/221 114 LSA cam and stock LS1 heads. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but the above numbers were through exhaust and a 9" with 4.56 gears I believe, also notice the torque.
<strong> Another thing to think about is these huge cams aren't killing the smaller ones in the power department. A good friend of mine put down 402 rwhp over two years ago through a mild-mannered 221/221 114 LSA cam and stock LS1 heads. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but the above numbers were through exhaust and a 9" with 4.56 gears I believe, also notice the torque.
03-12-2003, 09:23 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? All that said, what do you guys think the lift should be on a stock headed LS1 "Big Cam"? 580+ seems like a waste.
03-12-2003, 10:56 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> Another thing to think about is these huge cams aren't killing the smaller ones in the power department. A good friend of mine put down 402 rwhp over two years ago through a mild-mannered 221/221 114 LSA cam and stock LS1 heads. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Warren, I would have to say that Nicks car is the exception to the rule, not the norm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> We all know, and he even admitted to being a Dyno *****. <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />
<small>[ March 12, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: G2 LS1 ]</small>
<strong> Another thing to think about is these huge cams aren't killing the smaller ones in the power department. A good friend of mine put down 402 rwhp over two years ago through a mild-mannered 221/221 114 LSA cam and stock LS1 heads. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Warren, I would have to say that Nicks car is the exception to the rule, not the norm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> We all know, and he even admitted to being a Dyno *****. <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />
<small>[ March 12, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: G2 LS1 ]</small>
03-13-2003, 06:24 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong> Actually a bigger cam will help overcome the weaknesses of stock head flow numbers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are talking about Duration, right?
<strong> Actually a bigger cam will help overcome the weaknesses of stock head flow numbers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are talking about Duration, right?
03-14-2003, 10:33 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DaleMX:
<strong> All that said, what do you guys think the lift should be on a stock headed LS1 "Big Cam"? 580+ seems like a waste. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Also remember that a faster ramp cam will spend more time in the .500 lift range if the max lift is higher. It is not a waste at all and there is big power to be made on stock heads with high max lift numbers.
G2 LS1: Yes I was talking about Nick's car. It was very fast and definately backed up it's dyno numbers. The little cam sure didn't make the killer torque that your package does though. Congrats!
<strong> All that said, what do you guys think the lift should be on a stock headed LS1 "Big Cam"? 580+ seems like a waste. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Also remember that a faster ramp cam will spend more time in the .500 lift range if the max lift is higher. It is not a waste at all and there is big power to be made on stock heads with high max lift numbers.
G2 LS1: Yes I was talking about Nick's car. It was very fast and definately backed up it's dyno numbers. The little cam sure didn't make the killer torque that your package does though. Congrats!
03-15-2003, 06:09 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? There will never be a cam too big for LS1 heads, just possibly too big for the intended aplication.
Tell Al Corda his cam is to obig for stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Now you can have a big cam that is all wrong for stock heads.
Tell Al Corda his cam is to obig for stock heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Now you can have a big cam that is all wrong for stock heads.
03-15-2003, 08:10 PM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? I think it also depends on the other parts of the engine because they directly effect the flow.
Like headers and better flowing intakes, they ultimately flow more air thru the same ports on the heads...
Like headers and better flowing intakes, they ultimately flow more air thru the same ports on the heads...
03-16-2003, 09:27 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WMSuperSport:
<strong> I think it also depends on the other parts of the engine because they directly effect the flow.
Like headers and better flowing intakes, they ultimately flow more air thru the same ports on the heads... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good point, you are right; but there have been no developments in the intake/exhaust game in about a year.
<strong> I think it also depends on the other parts of the engine because they directly effect the flow.
Like headers and better flowing intakes, they ultimately flow more air thru the same ports on the heads... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good point, you are right; but there have been no developments in the intake/exhaust game in about a year.
03-16-2003, 09:45 AM
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Re: Is it possible to Over-Cam an LS-1?? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DaleMX:
<strong> All that said, what do you guys think the lift should be on a stock headed LS1 "Big Cam"? 580+ seems like a waste. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dont think any LS1 head needs more than .580" lift. LS6 head manages flow at higher lifts much better. Adding duration seems to make more power almost everywhere.You will notice cams with 220* make power peak around 6200 rpms, cams with 240* duration peak around 6500 rpms. Not a big change, which tells me LS1 will take what you throw at it pretty well.Once again Intake man. runner length and plenum volume set max peak power range.Cam and head flow seem to dictate total power under the curve.
<strong> All that said, what do you guys think the lift should be on a stock headed LS1 "Big Cam"? 580+ seems like a waste. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dont think any LS1 head needs more than .580" lift. LS6 head manages flow at higher lifts much better. Adding duration seems to make more power almost everywhere.You will notice cams with 220* make power peak around 6200 rpms, cams with 240* duration peak around 6500 rpms. Not a big change, which tells me LS1 will take what you throw at it pretty well.Once again Intake man. runner length and plenum volume set max peak power range.Cam and head flow seem to dictate total power under the curve.
